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Is a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow Muslim?

19 December, 2005

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"A young Pakistani student belonging to the Christian faith has posed an interesting question through a petition in the Lahore High Court. The question is: Am I, a Pakistani Christian equal to a fellow citizen who is a Muslim ?For those of the readers who missed the news item reported by an English daily, this young student belongs to a low income group, is a practicing Christian and extremely bright. She has been competing to get into the King Edwards Medical College but was beaten on the list by 20 marks by a Muslim student who got the extra 20 marks for being Hafiz--e-Quran. So, now this young Christian girl has filed a plea in the Lahore Court declaring that she and the Muslim student had equal marks but the latter got the advantage of religion. The young Christian student claims that ``this is discrimination against religious minority students and a violation of fundamental rights granted by the Constitution of Pakistan." The petition admitted by the Lahore High Court demands that either the LHC should rule to abolish the policy or should declare that a parallel policy should be made to award twenty additional marks to religious minority students on the basis of their religious knowledge. Fifty eight years after the creation of the country to ask such a question through the courts is both tragic and hopeful".


Constitution of Pakistan, Part II, Chapter -1, Fundamental Rights, Article 22 says:-
(1) No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.
(2) In respect of any religious institution, there shall be no discrimination against any community in the granting of exemption or concession in relation to taxation.
(3) Subject to law: (a) no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination; and
(b) no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth.
(4) Nothing in this Article shall prevent any public authority from making provision for the advancement of any socially or educationally backward class of citizens.

What do you think of above?

Reader Comments:

Billy Bob and Tarek

First, Billy Bob is not an American and is not a Christian in his heart. Please don`t allow him to get under anyone`s skin. (I can call names to fellow `countrymen`.).

Next, Tarek. Your hatred of the US and the west is well know on any of these articles. I don`t know if something bad happened at an airport or you were thrown out of a US school...but let it go. The US is not responsible for everything that goes on in the world that doesn`t go your way!

To the readers: All of the talk of religion this, religion that is missing the point. If you have a constitution with law, that`s what matters. That`s what is supposed to be followed. No religion builds roads, colleges, or towns. No religion sets speed limit signs. These are laws of the country and should be followed...just like the equal rights.

Religion is what allows your heart to decide whether to follow the laws. It`s unfortunate religion is now just a tool to use for destruction and murder.I have read too much about this lately and it`s disturbing.

Ryan, United Kingdom - 27 December, 2005

I see that Tom Edgar is quick to come down on me for my way of thinking but I do not see him disapproving of the Muslim point of view. I am saying nothing they have not said. May God bless those with the more powerful Missles. And for the Down Under Country, they are nothing but a continent of convicts and criminals. If it wasn`t for the Good Ole` USA they would be speaking Japanese now. Do I hear a thank you? Ungreatful they are when our boys died for them.

Billy Bob, United Kingdom - 27 December, 2005

Secular India

Although Pakistan is a secular country on paper there are discrimination agaisnt minorities specially hindus and sikhs at constitutional level.There may be riots and discrimination in India as well but at least constitutionally we are far better.India has resevations for minorities including buddhists muslims christans in educational institutes,government jobs.But no such thingin Pakistan.
And strangly there are no hindus in Pak defence forces.After almost 59yrs a sikh from pakistan has cleared the Inter Services Selection Board examinations for military services in his second sitting this year from Nankana Sahib in Lahore province.On the other hand India has not only a considerable number of muslims not only in army but other institutions as well.The greatest example of our secularity is Our Prime Minister is a Sikh(Manmohan Singh),Leader of Ruling Party a christian(Sonia Gandhi),President a muslim(Abdul Kalam) and Leader of Opposition Party a hindu(Atal Bihari Vajpayee).NO OTHER NATION CAN BOAST OF SUCH A DIVERSITY.

Abhishek, Hungary - 27 December, 2005

Equality

Pakistan is more free of a nation for people of minority faiths than many nations, esp. in our region, including india. Private schools across the globe have their own admissions regulations, and there are minor issues like this all over the place, not just in Pakistan, so keep it in perspective. At the same time Pakistan's founding Father said clearly that minorities are equal , as there is WHITE in the beautiful flag of Pakistan, but just as in any nation there are issues , but not major ones. Our history books dont make minorities look evil, Shiks have a lot of freedom in Pakistan as well, seriously folks, how many Gujrat style mass murders of minorites have happened in Pakistan? Answer? NONE

Essam, Pakistan - 28 December, 2005

To Essam.....

To Essam
I have cleared written that there are riots and discrimination in India as well.Those incidents are equally condemnable.However you need to ask yourself Why it took 59 yrs after independence of Pakistan to get a sikh into pakistan defence forces?Also why there is not a single hindu in the Pakistan Army even now?Why minorities do not have quota in educational institutes,government jobs?India has 10750 muslim soldiers in Indian Defence forces today.As per constitutional requirements 2 percentage of seats are reserved for minorities in all educational institutes pvt or govt.2% -5%of seats are also reserved in government jobs depending upon state to state.Giving no rights to minorities is not a minor issue.It is the duty of the state to protect their rights ..be it any state and not only pakistan.As Samir Latifi, British Virgin Islands has stated in the comments that Islam is the religion of pakistan.A true state is one which doesnt have any religion of its own.State shouldnot adopt any religion.And yes All True Indians regret and condemn Godhra incident and Gujrat riots aftermath.

Abhishek, Hungary - 28 December, 2005

Bobbing Billy

Far from wanting to indulge in a slanging match with someone so poorly educated he is unable to spell even in American English, nor even to use correct grammar.
I really must respond to the Fascist ravings of Billy Bob who, it seems, doesn't have the courtesy to which I have been accustomed when in the U.S.A. Far from being the saviour of Australia in WW11, which undoubtedly happened, but only coincidentally, because this continent was the only place offering a Pacific safe haven when the Japanese,. perfidiously, ejected the Americans from the Philipines.I would add that America did not come to our, or any other country's, aid in WW11. War was forced on them. Australia and the United Kingdom, along with the whole of continental India, which then included Pakistan, had been fighting a couple of years before America, reluctantly, were forced to join.
As for Convicts and criminals, in the past, Billy Bob should research more and find the that the convictions and criminality of the English who were sent here was largely for trivial offences of a very persecuted underclass. Comparatively the "Good Ole U S A. TODAY has the highest crime rate, the Worse murder rate (120 times Australia's or of the United Kingdom's) It has the highest CONVICT count, per capita, in the English speaking world.I wonder if it is coincidental that they also are the most religious.
Present day Australia has many people from all over the world with many, probably all, the major religions. Unlike the U S A my country has had as leaders. Atheists, Agnostics, Jews, Christians.We do not ban non native born citizens from being our Political Head as does America. Finally Billy Bob. You claim that you have only said that espoused by Muslims. Not true. There are many knds of Muslims, as there are in all religions, or as in my case Atheists. Undoubtedly the ignorant in all categories would speak as do you. Most wish to live harmoniously, respecting each other, whilst disagreeing philosophically. I still suspect "Billy Bob" (Hiding behind a psuedonym) Is either a perverted dangerous stirrer wishing to cause disharmony and hatred towards Americans and Christians. Or he is a warped Red necked Southerner who doesn't care that his inflammatory statements could cause harm to his fellow countrymen from Muslims with the same diminished mentality as his own. Oh! as I don't use psuedonyms.
Tom Edgar Glen Aplin Queensland Australia tomedgar@halenet.com.au




Tom Edgar, Pakistan - 29 December, 2005

Irrespective of the frustration the student belonging to the Christian faith is suffering from, on a wider scale, the Pakistan society is littered with incidents of religious bigotry. The politically motivated faith based hatred, incited by the Saudi form of Wahabism, has left the country in shambles with little or no trace of tolerance found amongst the people. It's not easy to point fingers at one leader or one party for the religious mess but one can confidently assert that had there been no Zia-ul-Haque, Pakistan would still have been a secularist state where Hindus, Christians and Shiites would have lived peacefully with their Wahabi/Sunni breathren. Down with fundamentalism and down with extremism.

Ahson Saeed Hasan, United Kingdom - 30 December, 2005

Islam's twisted image need correction

Human and animal do not survive if isolated from
group protection.For survival
Muslim support foolishly Israel.Turkish empire
was Roman Empire with Syria Jordan Iran ,Palestinian
and north African who had accepted islam at the
hands of Haz Omar sahabas.There were no Saudis ,no
Israelis no Australian,noUSA no Canada muslim oil-gas
occupiers.Iran President raised concern for iran safety and
injustice to missing 6 million Palestinian at the hands
of 22000 Balfour Palestinian jews .

It was Turks who died everywhere.Jews never flourished.It is the Turkish
Who are being holocausted past 100 yrs.Jews Saudis,Lawrence of Arabia
Of bush army were waging war on Turkish managed muslim oil gas fields
And continue to wage war on iranian muslim romans via iran nuke and
Armenian massacre fuss myth.Both Armenian and Palestinian jews
combined 5-8 million are trying to erase 1.3 billion Muslim,
islam quran managed oil gas fields .

Frankly speaking, muslim should focus on purpose of religion- islam Christian,Judaism
Hindusim and others. Israel ,Saudis and Lawrence of
Arabia allied army's Islam in twisted format is in conflict ?


m zakaria, Hungary - 30 December, 2005

What do I think ?

I think extra knowledge is good but it should be in the same area of knowledge. For instance; Christians don't memorize Bible while Muslims do. That is unequal judgment call. They should be only allowed to present extra work in the area of medical science and not memorazing Quran. Memorazing Quran would be awonderful asset if one was getting into religous studies.

Mohammad, Afghanistan - 31 December, 2005

Hey Tom Edgar,

Here is your quote about me..."Or he is a warped Red necked Southerner who doesn`t care that his inflammatory statements could cause harm to his fellow countrymen from Muslims with the same diminished mentality as his own." You are stating that my remarks could cause harm to my country. That is what I mean about those crazy Muslims. I`m sure I would be hanged in the public square if I was in a Muslim country.

Billy Bob, Pakistan - 31 December, 2005

Equality?

Is Pakistani christian not a human and created by Allah.Is
their God different from ours
and why are we muslims so empty in our thoughts.

Khalid Rahim, Canada - 01 January, 2006

christian-moslem religion scheme

The mosque of Pakistan Saudi
Canadian design has common
Slogan.Their theme is
"As Saudi Arabia is central
to Islam ,So Islam is central
to kingdom" mixing it with
cross of montreal king's sword
and curvature wisdom covered
under all white top”


M.B.Zakaria, United Arab Emirates - 03 January, 2006

"Billy Bob" an Indian?

I read the comments of "Billy Bob" and I have to say it doesn't seem like something an American would write. The very name "Billy Bob" in America is an insulting name to calll someone here so no one who was being serious would post under the name "Billy Bob". Most likely the poster isn't an American at all but intstead is an Indian trying to cause bad feelings between Pakistanis and Americans.

Jim, United Kingdom - 04 January, 2006

Tom Edgar are you "Billy Bob"?

Tom Edgar are you posting as "Bill Bob" from my country and then as yourself in order to launch verbal attacks against Americans? That is so lame.

Alex, United Kingdom - 04 January, 2006

Ex-Context

Oh! the twisted mentality of the
religious extremists. To take out of context one item, ignoring all others and then making no sense whatsoever to justify their warped imagination.As I told Billy Bob's alter ego in a previous disagreement. I, an ATHEIST, in the past have walked unhindered in Karachi and indeed worked out in a gymanasium there. I would agree that with my profession of Unbelief I would probably be vulnerable in the mountain regions of Pakistan where backward people live. Just as I would be in the mountain regions of Tennessee and Kentucky. After WW11 I could have, and nearly did, settle in Texas. I decided that my negative attitudes towards religion would adversely affect my prospects in that State of religious bigotry. No Billy Bob. All Muslims are not evil, no more so than all Christians. The evil in the religious mind is engendered by bigotry and hatred. With or without a religious belief most people just want to get on with their lives. The ignorant few wish to imopose their dogmas on everybody else.That I who, without beliefs, can accomodate all others with beliefs, and they in turn can accept me, is proof that the majority are sensible. I think you are crazy for having religious convictions, and you find it incomprehensible that I cannot accept unsubsantiated beliefs.
What a boring world it would be if this were not so.So Billy Bob. Go ahead and nuke your opposition and they can do the same to you. Just leave me out. I've been through all the wars and fights that I can handle. Politicians,Priests, and Mullahs have all vilified and demonised their opposition
in the past All it has ever achieved is dead, maimed and saddened people to re-deploy to start all over again, with the same old rhetoric.
tomedgar@halenet.com.au



Tom Edgar, Aruba - 04 January, 2006

"Billy Bob" and Tom Edgar Same Person

After reading the "conversation" between Tom Edgar and "Billy Bob" it is obvious that the two posters are in reality the same person. Tom Edgar is making "Billy Bob" up.

Henry, United Kingdom - 04 January, 2006

Billy Bob

In resonse to Alex and Jim.I agree with you in that Billy Bob is probably a warped individual who is not An American but someone with a diminished intellect wishing to stir up hatred. As for me being his alter ego,. NO WAY. just check the terminology and spelling. I have no love for American Politicians nor do I have affection for Pakistani leaders but my experiences in both countries, admittedly many years ago, leaves me with fond memories.
It is not impossible that "Billy Bob" is a "Fundamentalist" Christian or Muslim. Either way he should be confronted with his stupid observations and exposed as one trying to harm,not only, Americans and Christians, but inevitably, by engendering hatred from the ignorant, endangering his own people whomsoever they may be.By using this forum he tried to influence the sick and warped minds of the minority. This takes away from the objective of ascertaining whether or not Christian Pakistanis should be the equal of a Muslim. In my mind a non sequiter. Nobody is the equal of another. But all should have Equal Rights and Opportunities. Everybody should have the same access to education, health, law etc.,so that they can realise the potential they have acquired when born. The Billy Bobs of this world would deny us that.
I have relatives in the U.S. and my affection for the majority of the people is undiminished despite the efforts of the current adminisration. P.S. What is the derogatory implication of a Billy Bob, sounds like a disparaging term for a dumb backwoods hill billy from Arkansas. Tom Edgar tomedgar@halenet.com.au
P.S Billy Bob never gives his address, neither did his previous incarnation "JOE"

Tom Edgar, Aruba - 05 January, 2006

a pk christian is equal to pk muslim,how!

To,"As Saudi Arabia is central to Islam ,So Islam is
central to kingdom" (everywhere)

Hi,M.B.Zakaria,Hot news is that a pak muslim
is not equal to pk christian.But the capital`s 100,000
capacity king Faisal mosque on the model of hunza
valley cathedral white snow peak model is indeed central
to the kingdom.Delhi Jama Masjid will be renovated
says BBC.HM Faisal brother HM Abdallah will pay
to fix India`s largest Delhi jama masjid with inside
20,000 capacity outside probably upto 500 -1million
if your rag tag umma and flea market removed from mosque
garden.

Billo Z, Pakistan - 06 January, 2006

It's very clear. If King Edwards Medical College is getting funding from tx money than they can not do this. But if its private school and is not receiveing any public funding than it's perfectly ok. Also, here in the US we have whats known as Affirmative Action..preferential treatment based on ur race, etc. which in my opionion is reverse kind of discrimination.


"no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth."


Sam Khan, United Kingdom - 11 January, 2006

ISLAM is The Religion of Equality BUT in RANKS for Other-Religions is in Neutrality !

Part I:

Bismillah Airahaman Airahiem

ISLAM is The Religion of Equality BUT in RANKS for Other Religions ISLAM has got No-Racisl-Discrimination BUT Well-Religious-Distinction ONLY FOR THE DIFFERENCE THAT ISLAM FAITH IS IN THE ONENESS OF ALLAH(s.w.t)!
In The Christinaity God The Way is Defined with Sahriq=Shiraqat Ensharing-Partnership which is NOT The DEFINATION of ALLAH(s.w.t) THUS The Christian God in accordance to The Christian-Defination is NOT The ALLAH(s.w.t) DEFINATION THUS Christian God is NOT The Muslim God becauuse Muslims Faith is in The ONENESS of ALLAH(s.w.t) and The Christian Way of Describing God is in The THREENESS of The God which is Sheriq in accordance to ISLAM to Believe in The Chruistian Way of EXPLAINATION of God while Muslims MUST Believe in The ONENESS of ALLAH(s.w.t) under The ISLAMIC-TEACHING The ISLAM ALLAH(s.w.t) is in The Oneness of ALLAH(s.w.t) and NOT The Threeness of God.

ISLAM is RULE First than that of The System and The Rule is comming from The Society and Not The Culture because in Pakistan is The Old-Culture of Colonial-Times INFLEUENCE which was Christian-Domination under The Britsh and NOW it is under The WEST while WEST versus ISLAM and WEST is contra REST and WEST=Christinity-Culture is contra REST=Opertunity-Society
as Education=Job=Work=Future which forms Economy and through Socio-Cult-Eco-Geo Politics are PERFORMED.

The President cum General of Pakistan is Muslim from Qadiyani=Ahmadia Paternal-Parentage and Rasied in Turkey Secularism and Has Christian-Wife with Son in America This is FREEDOM of RELIGIONS Example in Pakistan.

ISLAM is The MESSAGE in EQUALITY with compromises between Black & White and Rich and Poor LITERATES and ILLETERATES in terms of POSITION of System !

ISLAM in SITUATION of Rule in terms of RANKS compared to Other-Religions is in Neutrality without ANY Compromises on ISLAM.

In Pakistan if The Constitution carry's INSCRIBED that in The Constitution of Pakistan is written under The name of The Islamic Republic of Pakistan mentioning that ALLAH9(s.w.t)ONENESS (Singularity) Monolistic-Monotheism about WHAT Prophet Abraham (a.s)RE-CONFIRMED The FAITH given to ADAM & EVE and ALL The Holy Prophets that ALLAH(s.w.t) is in WAHADANIET (Oneness)Singularity and NOT in PLURALITY (Threeness) Like it is Defined in The Christianity or Religions whom Do Not Beleive in The ONENESS of ALLAH(s.w.t) through such BELIEFS which does NOT BELIEVE in The Oneness of ALLAH(s.w.t) The World-Social-Orders Have been Established and such Governements under The THREENESS of God-Belief are responsible for The Zulum AGRESSION of WARS and TERRORS Like Attacking Foreign Countries which is State-Terrorism with STATEMENTS that "Are You with Us or With Them" and The Political- SABOTAGE which is carried from The WEST versus ISLAM in STRUCTURING The Political-Agendas World-Wide in The name of Democracy General-Presiden Musharraf was Earlier ACCUSED by The WEST for being Non-Democratic BUT after His FORCED Support to USA as DEMANDED by The USA without any CHOICE Given to Pakistan The General-President Since Had OPTED for The USA in OPEN while Pakistan was HIDDEN in CLOSE to USA from a long time and This was Exposed in 1962 When American Spy Plane was Shot Down in Russia Which Flew from Pakistan Pehawer-American-Air-Base which is Now could be ATTAINED from Kabul-American-Air-Base while The Russians-Lost This Kabul-Air-Base to Americans.
The RULE of ISLAM if be FIRST then come The Society to Culture to Community to Equality to The SYSTEM under ISLAM The Historical Reference is from The Times of Khalif-Haroon-ur-Rasheed Which was also Protective of Non-Muslims BUT under The Islamic-Secularism BUT Now it is under The Western-Secularism which has been PLORIZED and The WEST is DICTATING The ISLAM while ISLAM has got The RIGHT to REFUSE The WEST.

The System in Pakistan is written by The Christians of The WEST since The Colonials Times Standing-Points and NOT from The ISLAM Stand-Point and that is why The Justice in Pakistan is on The Shaky-Grounds The Question is as to IF in Pakistan is it The Sharia-Laws or The Western-Laws ? I as Muslim am The VICTIM in Holland and I am suffering every day under The AWB "Algemeen Wet Bestuursrecht" The Dutch ADMINISTRATIVE-Laws which are settled under The ADMINISTRATIVE-Rules while RULES can not be The LAWS.

see next message part II


Al-Haj.Faridullah.KOCH(Chairperson & Founder of The Islamitsiche Partij Ned, Netherlands - 11 January, 2006

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