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US Nuclear Pact with India

05 March, 2006

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Some Congress members say the deal will exacerbate the threat of nuclear arms proliferation, but the president disagreed.

During a discussion with entrepreneurs in the southern Indian city of Hyderabad, he said India has been "an excellent partner in non-proliferation over the past decades". "Therefore, I can tell the American people that this is an important agreement to help deal with the proliferation issue.

However, the Bush administration does not find Pakistan fit for same kind of agreement. US Secretary of State Codaleezza Rice says though, Pakistan is one of the most important allies of America in war on terror, however a civil nuclear agreement with it is not possible at the moment.

Questions

1) Do you agree with a contention that India-US nuclear agreement is against China?

2) Will this agreement destablise the balance of power in South Asia?

3) What should be the mildest reaction of Pakistan to American attitude?

4) Do you agree with Ms Rice’s statement that Pakistan is not fit for such agreement?

Reader Comments:

Comparison

I see some fiery conversation in here.Patriotism boiling.many people I see have disguised themselves as from USA or Netherlands.As far as I know westerners are not very concerned about any of the two countries far less support anyone(John Melad).

I travelled to both the countries.My honest perception of people from there were indeed contrasting.

While most people from both the side struggle for existence there were some stark differences for instance in India I did not see people trying to tell you,or should I say,persue you about their religion where as most that I met in pakistan are revolving only around the Holy Book.I find Indians to be more open minded and accept change in every aspect be it clothes,Religion,politics and since the time they open their economy I see money in their eyes.but millions die of poverty.

People in Pakistan too were hospitable as in India. Indians did not seem to talk about paksitan at all.Where as when they knew I had been to India they were quick to start comparing.

About the comparison I see more outwardness and peace in India in everyday life.Of course there is filth and petty cheats all over.

Pakistan wasn't scary at all as the media in my country has been putting,except for the occasion when I would be persuaded to listen to the verses of the Quran.

Economicaly I see Indians more affluent than pakistanies,At least in their lifestyle as I could gather from what I saw in Bangalore and Mumbai.I was quite surprised with their knowledge and ideas.The pubs were a great relief!

As for your fight on who is stronger I looked up some article on BBC. I would like you to have a look and probably will satisfy your quest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1735912.stm



Tom Spender, United Kingdom - 06 April, 2006

Comparison

I see some fiery conversation in here.Patriotism boiling.many people I see have disguised themselves as from USA or Netherlands.As far as I know westerners are not very concerned about any of the two countries far less support anyone(John Melad).

I travelled to both the countries.My honest perception of people from there were indeed contrasting.

While most people from both the side struggle for existence there were some stark differences for instance in India I did not see people trying to tell you,or should I say,persue you about their religion where as most that I met in pakistan are revolving only around the Holy Book.I find Indians to be more open minded and accept change in every aspect be it clothes,Religion,politics and since the time they open their economy I see money in their eyes.but millions die of poverty.

People in Pakistan too were hospitable as in India. Indians did not seem to talk about paksitan at all.Where as when they knew I had been to India they were quick to start comparing.

About the comparison I see more outwardness and peace in India in everyday life.Of course there is filth and petty cheats all over.

Pakistan wasn't scary at all as the media in my country has been putting,except for the occasion when I would be persuaded to listen to the verses of the Quran.

Economicaly I see Indians more affluent than pakistanies,At least in their lifestyle as I could gather from what I saw in Bangalore and Mumbai.I was quite surprised with their knowledge and ideas.The pubs were a great relief!

As for your fight on who is stronger I looked up some article on BBC. I would like you to have a look and probably will satisfy your quest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1735912.stm



Tom Spender, United Kingdom - 06 April, 2006

Hidayat Ullah, Canada,M.B.Zakaria, United Kingdom Bravo!

Kudos to your analysis!You can see the difference right here.Where as ppl from pakistan or pakistani origin have aired their anger ,Indians or pll of ndian origin here have mostly given grieat analytical and rational statements.True thers hardly any comparison!

Answers to questions like "Would it effect the balance....?"

Balance is not the right word its "imbalance".

Its proved Democracy does not have any replacement. As far as Hindu high Cast dominance and human rights are concerned you can see A Muslim and my "Hero" is the President.

A Minority Sikh is the prime minister. What else does india need to prove that its a country of fair opportunity and personal freedom.

Politics in Pakistan has been Power Play.Rule of the gun and gun can only spill Blood. Where as Politics in India has been Rule of the Balot and the Pen (The press).

We Indians are not only hindus as most in pakistan think We are Muslims we are sikhs we Christians we are Buddhists we are Jains we are jews.

For us life comes first then the country family and the least is religion.muslims in India will truly represent Islam cause Bin LAden could not pursue any Indian Muslim to join him.They are open to changes to their way of life as no other Muslim in any country.hinduism has been changing for ever and it will.Christians sing their Carrols but not in English.

With such diversity We have become even stronger as "Indian" .I wish Pakistan to be a very prosperous nation but I also wish will not create any trouble in India too neither in Sharm Al sheikh or the London Under Ground or New York .....or in Kashmir.

All the best to the ppl of Pakistan.




Sanjay, Pakistan - 06 April, 2006

Learn from China

Abraj, made it amply clear. Pakistanis need to take more cue from Chinese. Chinese are silent on this, even though they know that this effort to catch up on China, and less on Pakistan. Still Chinese are supporting to make it look positive and keep Indian mentality against joining anti -China team. Similarly Pakistanis need to harp on friendship and treat this issue ir-relevant (just as Musharaff did, when he stated that Pakistan need to look for its need and get away from blindly India centric). There are many areas where Pakistan can excel than other country of the region. That should be the focus.
Please note - US is not going to treat Pakistan as India or India as China, Or for argument sake, there is a way out. Get into a defence and currency union, without political union. Keep your independence and get out of this argument. Even better propose Musharaff as president of Indian Federation, India gets a suave president and Pakistan gets democracy and economy. (My personal opinion only)


GS,, United Kingdom - 06 April, 2006

to mr faisal

i think u r a little to hard on naman mantra cause ur own comments r ntn better than his.u say that u r a peaceful country wid great economic & military power guess wat u r scientist MR AQ KHAN stole the nuclear plans (which is also one of the reasons why the united states did not sign any nuclear deal with pakistan because of unreliability) & more than half ur military stuff is given by china as 'donations'.also pls let me point out as u ppl dont even have democracy .though ya the ppl of pakistan may be great( i completely agree) but then all ur militant groups(read terrorists) dont excatly make us indians ooze wid luv for ur country as those same pakistanis r busy shootin or having a blast here & there in our country.sir wid all due respect ur media does not even show u the images of militants training in northern pakistan & afghanistan & believe me they r horrible.
therefore sir pls get ur own facs right b4 lashing out in pure anger & defence for ur country.

ivsav, Hungary - 06 April, 2006

Hey dude sod melad,
why are you meddling and interfering. your european union countries create sufficient trouble with cartoon caricatures etc. , you just dont have to contribute!
Now, just take a walk, it will help cool your frustrations

ibrahim, Hungary - 06 April, 2006

No Comparisions Plz!

India and Pakistan have a lot in common , but are independent nations now. Countries of Indian sub continent similiarly have lot in common in terms of food, clothig, music etc. China , having mongolian origin have little commonalities with Indian sub continent. Hence, its better for people of Indian sub continent to be work together to resolve their issues mutually. Indian sub continent's influence on world in terms of religion, spirituality, music, culture, literature , architecture, food etc cannot be denied. Indian sub continents has bene crucible for many sects , religions ...Sikism, Jainisn, Buddhismn..Islam was gladly melted into Hindu majority nation with lesser problems when compared to religious wars in Europe, Middle east. World has to learn a lot from Indian sub continent, our potential is untapped. Lets not get into silly comparisions and let Western world drive wedge between nations of Indian Sub continent.

Sanjay, Hungary - 07 April, 2006

Tom, let me thank you for your sensible intervention on the topic. I am satisfied that I had dealt with melad, who in my opinion is a first class A.H, you know the 'rear end'! Now, let me revisit upon Mr. Zulfiqar's original letter. Sir, leaving aside the patriotic overtones, yes, I do agree a lot of what you said about India. I would state that it is true not only about India but also, all other developing countries, including Pakistan. Even your statement that, a certain segment of Indian population, I cannot agree with the percentage quoted, are considered low class citizens and are not allowed to voice their opinion or participate in political and government affairs could be true and could be existing in certain parts of India. However, what other writers wrote about the 'illustrious' fraternity of these same 'low class citizens' are also true. The Indian Penal Code and the Constitution guarantees right's to these same people along side other of their fortunate fraternity. Some were 'lucky' or 'persuasive' enough to achieve that and others were not. Now, Peaceful Nuclear Energy could help change this scenario. A disproportionate portion of India's GDP is being spent on Energy and Defense. For Defense, it is a geopolitical requirement, as could be read from the BBC report, Tom, referred to. However, Energy is a different issue. If Nuclear energy could be utilized, then all those billions of additional Rupees spent on Hydrocarbon fuel could be spared. This could then be utilized to generate social schemes, which will help the unfortunate society segments, as pointed out by my friend, Zulifiqar. I think if Government and Army, Pakistan's powerful duos, can come with safeguards, sufficient enough to convince International community, including India, they should also be given this opportunity. And such political maturity, if shown by these duos, could help ease strain generated by Defense spending, by both these countries.

ibrahim, Hungary - 08 April, 2006

All Indians...
you say you are peacefull ppl...think again...
in all these conversations you provr yourselves:
1. No Respect.
2. ignorant
3. liar
4. coward (and u always b)
.and we pakistanis(proud to be) have to say nothing but.
peace

Ali Shaikh, United Arab Emirates - 08 April, 2006

Haha, yes I can imagine how proud you must be of your excellent grasp on the English language.

Sarcastic comments aside, what exactly are you Pakistanis proud of? I've always wondered about that...

And you have no basis to call us cowards and liars, and to say that we are ignorant.

Now about respect...you obviously don't have respect for Indians so that makes you a hypocrite.

We Indians give respect where respect is deserved...

Naman Mantra, United Kingdom - 11 April, 2006

Ali Shaikh's mail

Ali's comments remind me an old elephant story. "If an African elephant give birth in London, will it be London elephant?” No. Do you know why? Because an elephant does not know how to change the character. Our Ali is just the same. He is still in the NWFP pupa. I mentioned NWFP because they seem more aggressive than other Pakistanis and pathetically they feel proud of it too. Once I came to understand that NWFT has the least schools and education, I feel sorry for them.
.

Inquilab, Hungary - 11 April, 2006

I have a dream

After visiting this blog few times, like King, I also have a dream. It is not Gandhi or Jinna, it is not Mushraf or Singh going to bring peace between India and Pakistan. But it will be the technology. The world wide web will bring the opportunity for both people to share their views and thus will force the politicians and policy makers to stop their propaganda machine used to generate hatred and vengeance which we see even in some of the comments on this page.

I thank Paktribune for not censoring the opinion posted here to suit only Pakistani interests. God bless India. God bless Pakistan. Looking forward to the day when my dream becomes a reality.


Abraj Thomas, Aruba - 11 April, 2006

Behind Bush and India Nuke Deal Sabre Rattling...

Behind Bush and India Nuke Deal Sabre Rattling...

Imperialism NATOism Bushism Americanism - will be on the verge of
Extinction OR is it Islam and Muslim Umma who will be slaughtered
Bombed (Muslim killing Muslim in Millions for every few hundred
Allied soldiers)

Bush: “Israelis and I do not want Iran to think own have Technology, Nuke
Perhaps be Oil owner Muslim Quran Reading or be living in Iran as Muslim
AS IRAN OIL OWNER”.

Muslim countries leaders will be hanged like Afghanistan Najibullah and Muslim
Civilians will be opening thousands of front in mixed population with allied soldiers
White soldiers or soldiers in uniforms .JIHADISTS will be everywhere. Iran is no Iraq
WMD Invasion with TV church singing Glory Hallelujah for free ride this time.

Muslim will have to drops BOMBS on Muslim population behind which
allied soldiers Are building nest and hiding places. From Muslim perspective
'slogan with Jihad will be everywhere for which muslims are waiting for
a long time .Slogan “Jihad will Be better to Die as Jihadiis than be
killed by as civilian watching world of Islam family friends dying via
stampede Shia Sunni mosque Bomb killings which ALLIED c i c BUSH
army seems Accelerating”.

If OIC seem releasing Alqaeda prisoners from custody, Forget it. The chances
Of 100% civilian attack on foreign Bush Blair or even India Japan looking
Personnel seem coming Amid death of Muslims in Tens of Millions.

Muslim Momentum has to grow from now on amid daily civilian killing
Which allied invasion programme seem creating.

Consequently extinction of imperialism democracy or extinction of Islam
And Muslim Umma is what bush Blair Israelis and India is talking about.


benz m Ispahani, India - 12 April, 2006

Where Sanjay's India US Democracy NUKE Leading To..


Sanjay: “India and Pakistan both commenced their journey at same time in
1947, But on took different routes. Pakistan chose to be Islamic state.
While India Chose to be Secular, Democratic nation”

Sanjay

India had taken 7-10 Steel Mills route in 1947 with emphasis to build
Steel based machines railway engines and cars and heavy industries.
Pakistan with just 2 universities and a Lahore Film Studio had taken food
Production Route .Others past 100 years had taken demolition of Ottoman
Turk Rule and TEL Route .TEL = teil telephone TE Lawrence
Sheik OIL asset removal route. Unfortunately since 1947 extreme Poverty
With poorest or poor housing and living condition makes one of the worst
One of the least hygienic places to live with still lowest income per capita
With hundreds of million unemployed with no chance of recovery or even
Place to walk leading to Route leading to ..


M.B.Zakaria, United Arab Emirates - 12 April, 2006

I can see this topic is about power not “Nuclear-Pact”, many writers are using unacceptable and unethical language to convince others about their strength and power. However, no one is willing to understand and accept reality. Pakistan and India are two nations with two different identities and needs.” No one is superior then other”. It is always good to be patriotic but insane to be ignorant and unrealistic.
I think it is waste of time to discuss power and development again and again. There are millions of people living in poverty in Asia, including, India, Pakistan and China. At the same time I understand that all of them have will power to make that region prosperous and of course a better place to live. Which is a great idea but to my knowledge poor are getting poorer because of two main reasons, corruption and mismanagement specifically in India and Pakistan. Furthermore, rule of law is not fully enforced and of course, feudal lords are considered more powerful and above the law. Now having said that, there are other issues too but again this is the real world and we will continue to face these problems.
It does not make sense to write that Pakistan must prove to its neighbors that it is not involved in nuclear proliferation. Let me make it clear to everyone, DO NOT get confused between A Q Khan and Pakistan, the proliferation was act of one person “not entire nation”. It is absolutely nonsense to point out Pakistan.
When you talk about crimes you must be precise and clear whether the offender is an entity, state, government or an individual. For example the Hindu-Muslim communal fighting in Gujrat where thousands innocents people slaughtered was an act of an individual according to the Indian and independent sources. But it is not wise to point the entire nation.




Zulfiqar Tanoli, United Kingdom - 12 April, 2006

...

M.B. Zakaria, UK…….
Comments from SANJAY are more realistic. India and Pakistan have everything in common. Being Islamic state or muslim is not an offence. I live in Lahore and for your ignorant brain.…..I studied in England and I know what kind of life style is there, you are probably one of that pizza delivery guy, or may be living on food stamps, you don't know any thing about the world. Sure we don't have bollywood nor Hollywood because we can have our own recognition and values. As for as concerned of money, housing, population and other stuff you mentioned is totally crape………I bet you will be looking for a job in Pakistan soon……growth rate is 7.5+ and by the way….unemployment is 6.95 or so…….so don't be ignorant……..
Shazia Khattak….

..., Pakistan - 13 April, 2006

Ok I think Mr. Tanoli is right, we need to stop comparing India and Pakistan. It doesn't have much to do with the article, and is pretty dumb. It's like comparing the US with East Timor. You can sit there and claim that India is the poorest of the poor but the facts remain is that Pakistan is in a much worse situation and India is rapidly lifting people out of poverty. Remember, in 1947 80 percent of Indians were in poverty. Fifty years later, that number is at about 20 percent.

The point is that India has full legitimacy to this nuclear deal and we hope and one day Pakistan will too. But for that Pakistan will have to see radical changes, and until then there's no way any sane person will give it nuclear technology unless they want to use Pakistan as a puppet against India.

Naman Mantra, United Kingdom - 14 April, 2006

What do you mean parity ?

(1)Do you agree with a contention that India-US nuclear agreement is against China?
(Ans) To put this into perspective, lets ask another question. Do you think China's alliance with Pakistan is to contain India ?
(2)Will this agreement destabilise the balance of power in South Asia?
(Ans) I dont know which village idiot came up with the "balance of power" theory. There is no balance - only an assumption of one. When the Phalcon was supplied to us Pakistan complained about tipping the balance. When we bought hundreds of the most advanced Sukhois Pakistan complained of balance being upset. All these have already HAPPENED. Please explain to me at what point "balance" ACTUALLY gets violated ? As for our economy, America and other countries in the world are cooing India for a real reason. Economic might and a stable democracy. If Pakistanis feel they are equal then why doesnt 98% of the world share the same opinion ? Ask yourselves that.
(3)What should be the mildest reaction of Pakistan to American attitude?
(Ans) I would first start about by not being rabidly anti-Jew, anti-Hindu, anti-Christian, etc. Then I might consider handing over AQ Khan to interrogators outside the country. Clean up you're act before you expect to be treated as a good worldly citizen.
(4) Do you agree with Ms Rice's statement that Pakistan is not fit for such agreement?
(Ans) Lets see. A country that gave open support to the Taliban. A country who pardoned the no.1 proliferator of nuclear weapons. A country who pushes "freedom fighters" into all her neighbouring countries. And a country that got most of her missile technology from North Korea and China via proliferation. Ummm ... yeah I think Condi is quite right to deny you nuke technology. Stare at the facts.

Keshav, Hungary - 14 April, 2006

US Agenda = Killing is for Peace

In general US do everything for their own interest
They made Pakistan and India fight so that US can rule.
they made Iran and Iraq fight for 10 yrs so that US can rule.
They supported Afghan during Russian war so that US can rule.
They supported Israel in Middle East so that US can rule.
They seperated UK from Europe so that US can rule.
etc etc but when their interest is over they are no more allies of anyone.
US attacked their allies i.e. Afghanistan
US attacked their allies i.e. Iraq who fought on US support with Iran for 10 years

Answers to question
1) Do you agree with a contention that India-US nuclear agreement is against China?
YES and also against Pakistan
2) Will this agreement destablise the balance of power in South Asia?
YES
3) What should be the mildest reaction of Pakistan to American attitude?
Pakistan should increase literacy and love among Pakistanis and try to achieve high goals by utilizing their own talents and skills. Being in west I have seen through my own eyes that Pakistanis are making lots of grest and remarkable achievements in every field so they can do the same in Pakistan given the oppurtunity and recognition and not the bullet in a head
4) Do you agree with Ms Rice's statement that Pakistan is not fit for such agreement?
YES, bcoz Pakitan is a muslim country and next target of US after Iran is Pakistan

Anonymous, Pakistan - 14 April, 2006

I feel sorry for the folks from Pakistan. They vent and whine against every one in the world. They are so caught up against so called injustice against Umma, against Kashmir etc.,
they seem not to notice a serious problem that really matters to them.

I think this country is in a sense of denial. To an outsider like me this looks obvious.

The reasons for Pakistan's misery is simple. It is not USA, it is not Afganisthan, it is not Kashmir. It is not even India that is responsible of its miseries.

It is the military leadership.
Their country has been lead from disaster to disaster by their Military. This leadership is eager to renting their country to fight somebody else war.

As a result of this leadership Pakistan has become a mercenary state looking for reasons to fight. Unfortunately the pursuit helps the master and Pakistan, like a mercenary, is happy with the crumbs and pays heavily by a stunted growth.

Now they have become so dependent on foreign inflow they are caught in a catch 22. The job of a Military is to fight. So they seem to think the job of Pakistan is also to fight. From the birth till now this is the only country in the neigborhood that is always looking for reasons to fight. How can a country suceed if it exists only to fight? With all the 'strong' militray this is the only country that lost land in the neighborhood. (Part of kashmir to China, Bangladesh, I would say even Afganisthan).

The military leadership is a curse to this land of pure.

But I see no Pakstani readers debating vigorously how they can come out of this trap. I know they do not have really any option.

So these guys have gone into a denial mode and are venting it out on all and sundry while the cursed military is sitting on their shoulders.

To me this is a real sorry state of affair and feel sorry for the trapped Pakistanis.







George, United Kingdom - 14 April, 2006

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