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Torturing Iraqi Prisoners - Who's responsible ?

02 May, 2004

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The whole world is outraged by the pictures broadcasted on all major media networks, showing coalition forces torturing Iraqi prisoners in an inhumane and disgusting manner.


President George W. Bush also expressed "deep disgust" at the reported US abuse of Iraqi prisoners and said that stern action would be taken against the individuals responsible for these despicable acts.

"I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated," Bush said at the White House. "I didn't like it one bit. "Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people,"

Chief of the General Staff of Britain, General Sir Michael Jackson also raised his voice against British Soldier involved in similar inhumane acts:

"If this is proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform. They have besmirched the good name of the Army and its honour."


1. Do you think such pictures would help coalition forces to win the hearts of Iraqis ?


2. Do these pictures somehow reflect the overall morale of coalition forces in Iraq ?


3. Who should be responsible for such inhumane acts of coalition forces in Iraq ?



Picture Courtesy Daily Mirror : URINATED ON: A British soldier urinates on an Iraqi prisoner in a vile display of abuse. The captive was beaten and hurled from a moving truck. Army chiefs are investigating.

Reader Comments:

Wild Wild West

May I ask What reflection was of Wild Wild West ?

What else one can expect from Americans when they play with guns?

Agha, Pakistan - 02 May, 2004

Can One Refute?


Can One Refute?
That none could allege extremism in Saudi Arabia before the US deployment of her forces in Saudi Arabia and then an obtrusive refusal to leave despite Saudi Government insistence, being conveyed persistently and politely.
That none could allege extremism in Iraq before the US inhuman onslaught, occupation and barbarism.
That none could allege extremism in Kashmir as well as Pakistan before the Hindus occupation of Kashmir, perpetuating barbarism and blatant refusal to negotiate the dispute despite the UN Security resolutions on the application of their Supremo PM Pundit Jawaharlal Nehru.
That none could allege extremism in Palestinians before the occupation of their homeland, their ouster, barbarism and now even the retraction of Israel from the Oslo peace Agreement 1993, signed by PLO and Israel brokered by the lord of Jews, the US.
That none could think of extremism in Thai Muslims tell this day - but Thai government also sown the seeds of the dreadful crop of extremism by killing 112 innocent young Muslims mostly students brutally on April 28, 2004 in a Mosque. Every action has a reaction and barbarism has no exception. When barbarism of the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, barbaric backing the barbarism of the Jews and keeping her teeth on Muslim throats throughout the globe are viewed, Osama Bin Laden appears Saint, if he was the mastermind of 9/11 for real. US succeeded in splitting the DNA but could not decipher the code of the Muslim blood - that letting of the Muslim Blood is an unforgivable liability. If life is made that miserable that unbearably then its explosion is the only refuge and rescue for the life. This is the code of Muslim blood, I decoded - barbarism gives birth to Terrorism.Iraqis Prisoners abuses by US & UK forces will give new impetus to the voilince throughout the globe - and thus US may keep another black feather in her cape, for secceeding in globalization of the extremism.



Aftab Alam Khan Advocate Swat, Pakistan - 02 May, 2004

What these few people did does not reflect the Entire US or British military.The people who did this are inhuman and acted of their own stupidity and hatred and they DO NOT represent our military one bit. In every society there are always the few who do not value human life or human dignity.As a wife of a soldier I know that this is not how our men and women in uniform would want to be judged and that they are all disgusted at the behavior of these people. They have disgraced the uniform and our country and we are deeply mortified at their behavior. My husband is there in Afghanistan to help the people rebuild and be free as are all of his fellow soldiers.They will not let something like this ever happen on their watch and have way to much respect for human life and liberty.

tina, United Kingdom - 02 May, 2004

gross

the treatment of the iraqi prisoners by US soldiers is absolutely disgusting. they in no way have the right to do such inhumane things. no wonder the rest of world looks at the US like a big joke with too much power. it's sad and i somehow sadly think that nothing will be done about it either.

CP, United Kingdom - 04 May, 2004

Agha you said what can one expect from Americans well that solider was British.

Gladys, United Kingdom - 04 May, 2004

Inhuman

Could you please post the link of the article you wrote on the terrible and horrible inhuman things the Iraq people did to the captured Americans they killed? I would like to read that story.

Jewel, Pakistan - 04 May, 2004

Freedom ???

Until the world not didnot explain the meaning of occupation and freedom. These incident are certain

Fiaz, Pakistan - 04 May, 2004

All is fair in love and war...

Those photos are not very nice to look at but either are the images of the savages in Iraq dragging corpses of US civilians through the streets of their ghetto. I would rather be pissed on than dead. Consider yourselve lucky that we don't act like the savages we captured.

Michael Jones, United Kingdom - 04 May, 2004

1 2 3

1.The only thing these pictures will win are a place in the hall of infamy.
2. It shows that war drives people mad.
3. The madmen that sent these lunatics to war and are planning to "re-create the world" through destruction.

pbq, United Kingdom - 05 May, 2004

Deplorable...

The difference between cultures absolutely amazes me. Even the questions posed here are one sided. “Do you think such pictures would help coalition forces to win the hearts of Iraqis ? “ Of course not… it's absurd to even ask that.
The actions of a few American soldiers in no way representative of our military and their morale. The fact that you are even seeing those pictures is a testament to the transparency of the United States military, and their desire to protect our national security and provide a better future for the good people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

That being said, where was the outcry in your region when people danced in the streets after hearing of the attack on the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon on September 11th. Where was the outrage in your region when American soldier's dead bodies were dragged through the streets? Where was your outrage when an American journalist was held hostage and murdered by criminals in Pakistan? Where is the outrage about Iraqi guerillas firing from mosques, hospitals, schools and from behind women and children. Where is your outrage? I know I, and millions of other Americans would LOVE to know.

I think those actions are far more inexcusable than soldiers posing and taking improper photographs with Iraqi criminals. I agree the soldier's actions are deplorable. They will be dealt with and suffer the consequences of their actions. But the double standard applied to the US in comparison to the horrid treatment of citizens in that region, by their own governments, doesn't even compare.

So the next time you see your neighbors celebrating the death of American civilians, or the torture of Americans, think of your “outrage” about this incident and decide for yourself if you are applying the same standards.


Jeff, United Kingdom - 05 May, 2004

If soldiers from a superpower nation ought to do such acts how can they justify such in human acts

I am dumbfounded by the recent news of torture of the Iraqi POW's by the coalition forces that have been circulating across all forms of media.I appreciate the work done by various people from the media and condemn the in-human acts from soldiers from the coalition forces.The coalition forces were sent on an Iraqi mission of capturing Saddam Hussein and bringing stabilty to the area.If they carry on with such in-human torture and abuse I don't think that they have the right to be in the army.The people involved in such shocking acts should be court marshalled and handed such punishments such that they would not repeat such acts in future and if they have any moral left should immediately resign from thir posts which has brought humiliation to the uniform they wear and to the country they belong to .If a country considered a world leader of both the developed and the developing countries cannot stop such crimes then I think that it cannot justify the war crimes on POW's from other countries.I urge the leaders of both the USA and Britain to look into such matters of utmost concern and bring to book all people involved in such war crimes.

P.Srikanth
INDIA

P.Srikanth, Hungary - 05 May, 2004

Dear Muslims Brothers and Sisters:

I am disgusted at the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners.

Yet I am dismayed at the degree of your outrage. Moderate muslims (in the US ) that I had counted on as associates have become furious at all “Americans” for being “devils.” Opinion columns and web boards are full of people claiming that the abuse of these prisoners is a true picture of the American attitude toward all muslims.

I believe that your current outrage at all Americans is in fact an indictment of your disturbed mindset.

To illuminate this, we need to compare your reaction now with your reaction to last month's outrage near Fallujah. Four American contractors seeking to reconstruct Iraq were tracked, beaten, dragged, mauled and then murdered by a jubilant mob of Iraqis. Hundreds of men, women, and children celebrated mutilating their bodies and hanging them up. The Arabic media filmed all of the events and then aired them without qualms.

You aired and watched those horrendous acts of barbarity over and over and gloated at your “victory.” You made CDs and sold them in Baghdad and Damascus . When the American army called for the perpetrators to turned over, the whole town hid them. Even the Iraqi Governing Council was silent in approval.

In the face of this much barbarity we remained silent. Even the forums of FFI and similar sites refrained from condemning all Arabs. Instead, we attributed the savagery to a small number of evil people. And we continued to relate to you on gracious terms, despite your gloating.

Now look at the Iraqi prisoners' abuse by a few American soldiers. Yes what they did was inhumane and deserving of punishment. But the degree of abuse was no where close to what the 4 American contractors and the 700 American soldiers endured at the hands of angry Iraqis.

First, there is no evidence of torture, which is when an extended period of physical abuse permanently traumatizes a victim. Accusations of sodomy have been made, but the photos and reports only prove that it was being posed for the sake of the photos. For the most part, a group of prisoners were being paraded about naked and occasionally made to pose in degrading positions with hoods on. No pain was inflicted and no forced sex was involved. The six soldiers apparently kept themselves to the rules of hazing, which involve humiliation without the infliction of pain.

Second, you can argue that there was psychological torture, but the case is weak. Practices almost as bad as these are common in hazing rituals in the American Army and in fraternities. They may be humiliating but they are not tortures.

You claim that such humiliation is worse than death? Ask the prisoners and their families whether they would rather be dead or endure a year of anonymous humiliation.

Third, these prisoners were being held at the highest security prison in Iraq . They were mostly guilty of killing Americans. Was this worse than what Saddam used to do with his prisoners on daily basis for decades? Where was your cry of indignation then?

The more important point I would like to make is that the acts of 6 army police can't be taken as a sign of American barbarity by any rational person. Six out of 150,000 soldiers is 0.00004%. And the number of abuses was limited to one isolated cell block. No other similar cases by Americans have turned up despite a year of heavy media coverage.

Additionally, these six were obviously mentally messed up. Not no sane person would take photos of those acts and then distribute them.

Finally, they were amateur soldiers who felt they didn't need to live up to any expectations. They were National Guardsmen who had been torn away from their lives in the US to work in a miserable country full of angry men trying to kill them. One or two apparently felt entitled to playing sadistic practical jokes and the others in their isolated team went along.

So my Muslim brothers and sisters, I am in solidarity with you in condemning the acts of these few soldiers. No sane person would approve or condone such thing.

Now Instead of giving free rein to your hatred of America , shouldn't you rather ponder upon the silence of the Muslims worldwide when the news of the cold blooded murder of the Americans reaches them?



Sammy Jabareen, Canada - 05 May, 2004

The USA amusement.

It is common saying that" If wealth is lost than nothing is lost,
if the health is lost than some thing is lost,
But if Character is lost than every thing is lost"
There is rise and fall for every advance nations, if they do or don't follow the core course, Off course, it is a alarming sign/ or wakeup call for the USA regime.
State terrorism, barbarism, and hatred among the nations will bring the moral down. Obviously, a down fall for the USA regime.


aabshaaraypakistan, United Kingdom - 05 May, 2004

Prisoners ponography

Re: S.Jabreen. CA
Who ever are commanding or performing the evil acts, they are uncivilized regime, but not the nations? The Saddam regime or some body else is a regime that doesn't represent the country ventures. Put yourself on the top of the paramount by showing yours ends and ponograph it, Visualize it, if they are in your house and treating your family members and building a paramount and how you gona feel it. Off course what is going on in the Iraq doesn't make any sense, it is preoccupation. USA Soldier / Marine are the core of volunteers and good fighter, but they are not fighting the real cause, believe me they wanted to come home safely, to join their loved one.

aabshaaraypakistan, United Kingdom - 05 May, 2004

Reaction

This is in response to one of the comments raised on this speak out, where a person indirectly justified the reaction of U.S. Soldiers for what Iraqis did to four U.S. American in Fullujah, by burning them and hanging them on the bridge. Now if the "Reaction" of U.S. soldiers are considered justified for forcing Iraqi prisoners to become nude, then I am afraid everything is Justified.

This is one of the reasons, the leaders in the Muslim world relate everything with the root cause problem, that is, the illegal existence of Israel, and overwhelming support of Americans to Israel.


As they say, action and reaction are always equal but opposite in direction. The actions of U.S.A. are undoubtedly becoming the cause of every reaction that is happening in the world, it's for sure in the opposite direction to what American and Israeli Govts wants, but indeed the majority of world sees it moving in the right direction to make this world a much better place by destroying the barbaric hegemony and state sponsored terrorism of U.S.A. in the world.

May be they don't have the appache helicopters or state guided cruise missiles to kill thousands in seconds, but apparently there seem to be an increasing hatred being generated against Americans for every single flying sortee they conduct over the muslim world. The thrust and smoke that their fighter crafts are generating in the air of Muslim world, perhaps will eventually pollute their own atmosphere.

May be Americans are unable to see it through their embedded journalistic media, but the world is not blind and everyone is seeing and believe that this unjustice will not last for long.

S, Pakistan - 06 May, 2004

Its apparent that the our military is a disgusting corrupt boys club which has evolved into nothing more than a way for people to either pay for college or commit heinous acts of rape and murder while recieving praise as a 'hero' serving our country. Damn this whole war. I honestly dont see how the Bush administration and our Armed forces will ever redeem themselves. Permanent shame of our country.
How on earth can anyone justify such acts? To hell with all of them. I cant imagine being more ashamed of my country's government and military.

Suzanne, United Kingdom - 06 May, 2004

I had expected some American "Patriots" to jump in and deny any abuse by American soldiers. Is this what you call "freedom" in the USA? Freedom for your soldiers to violate human rights in the name of "Patriotism"? Let us hear about how great this makes America.

The problem with many Americans is that they have their heads stuck too far up their own backsides. They really believe that 9-11 was an attack on freedom. If you try explaining that it is more likely that 9-11 was an attack on American double standards or her neo-colonialist foreign policy, it's like your talking to a brick wall.

Libertarian, United Arab Emirates - 06 May, 2004

My dear muslims brothers and sisters, it is not Iraq alone ,you must look around the World. The Muslims are treated like anmials. The worst came from Iraq because the CBS has a courage to show the American public and the World , what happen in Abou Garib Jail.This was not the act of few officers but it was preplan act by military and inteligence authorities. This savage act is done to demoralze the muslim community as a whole. The same treatment has been done by India in Kashmir and Gujrat. The same treatment is done to over 600 Muslims in Gauntano Bay cuba, Mazar-e-Sharief in Afgahnistan and in Afghan prisions but unfortunatly those pictures are not published.The Us Government is now blaming few soldiers but every bady knows that this was a preplan programme to create fear among Iraqui people so that IRaqui fallow the orders of US. The British did the same thing but the matter was coverd but this time thanks to a poerful US media, the US Government was not able to stop this programme. This shameful act will bring more problems to the World and few dozen more Osama will born from this shameful act.This also shows that US Givernment has become a White extrimist Government, where the human rights and dignity is left for whites only. What a sad story, a nation which preaches democracy,human rights, dignity of human being has done the same thing as Saddam used to do with his opponents. Then what is difference between Bush Government and Saddam.If this is the democracy for Muslim World then we should be careful about this special democracy for Muslims, like we see by NSC in Pakistan. We are also seeing the killings of Muslims in Thiland and Ambon in Indonasia. These indiscriminate killings shows the value of muslim life.
Raja Muhammad Habib Jalib Chairman Jammu& Kashmir Human Rights Council International Wing.


Raja Muhammad Habib Jalib, Canada - 06 May, 2004

how did u feel amrican people i hate u from the first time i see this picture it is more than kill ,if u kill someone he die and go to great god,but do that with him ((i wanna to close your eyes and be him in this moment,what did u feel (yes)u hate the bad man and u will revenge if can if it possible))that i feel and i wanna to do with all amircan government..........i know my words do not do any thing but i come here to day for true where is true amrican people?where is true amrican people?where is true amrican people?laugh i know u laugh but laugh alittle because i will laugh alot on u when the god want.


galaxyleelo, Ecuador - 06 May, 2004

I share my thoughts with Ali Ahmed Khan of BBC contributor, that general people are always peace loving and hate such crimes, it is only the 'Faugies' no matter which nation they belong to, are involved in such horrible acts, be it Taimur Lung, Changez Khan, Saddam or Bush.


Sunny, Pakistan - 06 May, 2004

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