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Recognizing Israel |
President General Musharraf who is currently visiting the Middle East has called upon the Muslim countries and their masses to 'recognise' Israel for resolution of Palestine issue. This is not the fist statement made by the military General. By time and again, he has ' urged' the Pakistani nation to ' think' about recognition of Israel as Pakistan can get numerous
benefits by doing that.
Musharraf's recent statement has triggered strong criticism on the part of religious and political parties. The PPP, which often avoids condemning any policy or act, which pertains to USA, has once again refused to comment on Musharraf's statement saying it would consult other opposition parties on the issue.
However, the six-party religious alliance MMA, and Nawaz Sharif-led PML(N) have openly criticised the idea saying that Musharraf is taking another U-turn on the country's traditional stand on Palestine after Kashmir.
They say Musharraf instead of brokering a peace deal between Israel and Palestine, must try for peace within Pakistan.
Here are some questions
1) Do you agree with the contention that Musharraf is selling some US proposals vis-à-vis Palestine?
2) What could be the motive behind Musharraf's call for recognition of Israel?
3) What benefits could Pakistan achieve by recognising the Zionist State?
4) Should Musharraf try for peace in Middle East first or peace in Waziristan, and Balochistan?
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Have Your Say
The founding of Pakistan
The foundation of the state of Pakistan has been compared to the foundation of Israel in terms of political circumstances, and national self determination of a multi-ethnic religious group. (For more insight read Vali Nasr), despite the many differences as well. In terms of our history as a socio-political entity, it serves to take a retrospective look of both Israel and Pakistan besides what is mere "moral responsibility" to the Arab, or broadly, the Muslim world.
Qazi, Pakistan
recognising israel is danger for peace
from the beganing israel is antimuslims and antipeace in the regon of muslims areas. as for as musharaf's recognatoin of israel is concern he and his company might recognise the israel but the problem that will be faced will unstopable becous after the recognation israel will be able to access the muslims world very easy.but as for as my view is concern israel must not be recognise by the muslims world
syed zafar shah, Pakistan
Addressing Dr Qazi again
The issue of recognizing Israel is not siding with any group or countries amongst the Islamic world. As i mentioned in my last letter, it is pure democratic choice that we are sticking to. The nation just does not want to indulge into an other mode of dividing Islamic world for some one who really does'nt care much about which decision we go to. Nor it relly matters much to them when they can make even America dance on the masterly tunes and some neuvo rich or neuvo privileged in their worshiped new world of America to disparage, belittle or even cast aside the country where they were born and had grown up.
As i mentioned in last letter, the minority vote of Turkey, Egypt, Jordan and Fatah represents only 10 percent of 1.5 billion people of Islam.You have 90 percent in large countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia,Sudan, Nigeria,Algeria, Morroco,Syria and dozens of other countries, who are on waiting game and expecting for conditional changed behaviour of the party of recognition issue.
Even in Pakistan, the vast majority pulls their president out of his dance of recognition each time he gets into mood of doing this not so popular dance for the Islamic world.Mr Qazi, you have to bow to the majority if you really love democracy.
There is nothin wrong in recognizing any thing if they respect you as equal and do not engage into inner islamic bleeding, divisiveness, neglect and deigning as third class people.The Islamic world today is badly burning and is being destroyed by the very militristic policicies of America and masterly prodding by Israel of sole super power.
Dr Qazi must swing out of his neuvo privileges and the dance about the masters, who have absolutely no regard of the destroyed and profusely bleeding nations of Islam. Until those things are corrected,the Islamic people's majority has every right to stay in majority and postpone every thing till a correction is made by the other side.If the press of Russia,China, even India and many other countries are talking of Islamic world being crucified today, then those neuvo privileged people like Mr Qazi, many others and even some Pakistani military generals and their America singing president will be made to sit in pseudo isolation on this very touchy issue.Things must only reciprocate with altered behavoiur of the overly agressors on Islamic world.
Not just that, we are being prodded with bribes and privileges to the powerful amongst muslims to indulge into inner bleeding disguised as Shia-Suni in-fighting, ethnic and racial divides, lines of fire and you name whatever. So indiscriminate has been the attack on Islam that other major powers like Russia and China have lost their sleep to amass massive weapons of mass destruction out of fear.
90 percent Islamic majority is right to watch who amongs them would break ranks amongst them and cross over the line against majority.
Mr Qazi, it is not Pakistan's taking sides for chauvonist reasons.The Islamic world is fighting for its survival and is even fearing about the sacred place like Al-aqsa coming tumbling down.
Most islamic world understands that they are more or less like the lambs assembled by the butcher for slaughter.They know that even kissing the same hand of the butcher which is alredy running the same knife on one won't spare them all in the end. One by one they will all have to go unless they turn into something other than lambs or unless the world's overly aggressive do have change of the heart for better.
The excessive hate against the cornered and targetted muslims even go to the shamelss and merciless talks on media of dropping super H-bomb on non nuclear Islamic state as if killing millions of powerless muslims would be fun acts like playing toys.
Mr Qazi may be singing about those who have provided him neuvo luxuries in his new opportunistic land that the humble Islamic nation could not afford to lavish upon.But, those 90 percent dignified muslims do love the very notion of respect for the very survival, existence and dignity of their Islamic world.I have known for forty years about how they value very Islamic names like Muhammad or Mahmood that they will swallow poison rather than even taking of these very dear names of Islam.
By the grace of Allah, the world is fast moving into multi-polar and multi-powered status. The mighty ones will have no time to create bloody mischiefs against Islamic world other than saving their own skin in the mighty struggle of the power prowess of theirs and Shanghai accord.
In the last such locked in survival of the fittest fights within the power prowess in Afghanistan war, Pakistan availed the opportunity to assemble few dozen nukes for its own survival sake.
NEXT TIME WHEN SUCH OPPORTUNITY COMES SOON, SOME ISLAMIC STATE OR STATES, TOGETHER, MAY EVEN ACHIEVE A SUPER POWER STATUS TO BRING THE ISLAMIC WORLD BACK TO GRANDNESS THAT WE LOST IN FAILED OTTOMAN SEIGE OF VIENNA IN 1684.
Anwar Mahmood, Canada
Note the trend in those posting opinions here
I noted that most if not nearly all of the anti-Musharraf and anti-Israel posts made here are made by NON-Pakistanis and Pakistanis resident outside Pakistan - in contrast - most of the posts made by those living in Pakistan are Pro-Musharraf and Pro-Israel.
I would encourage those who are outside Pakistan to get intouch with the TRUE feelings of the people in Pakistan - and realize that the overwhelming majority support Musharraf and his policies - INCLUDING recognizing Israel!
Farhad, Pakistan
Benefit of Joining Israel is many But Loss is Greatest
Notion of Recognition of Bani Israel by Surah Fatah Holy Prophet direct
Descendent Claimant Hashemite Jordan king or Moses of hurling stones edict
Egypt have become Zionists of Gold Bullion stock index Dancers is absurd.
The truth is that it had resulted in Almighty God Sending Jesus
With Bible bypassing Torah. They did it again which had resulted in sending
Quran With memorized version surah (to make theft claim proof).
The claim that various political parties seeking top job in Pakistan Turkey
Egypt Philistine have become parties of Zionist is theft version.They are the
Individual ones who with theft version have fake recognition papers .
.
These Political parties new monoethist Gods are the ones
Who have declared Quran as satanic verses .They have adopted
In lieu legislated version verses .Quran simply called “God has no
Partners or Son Jesus or adopted female deities.
The political parties individual leaders Olmert Sheiks or Fatah yasser
Arafat King president or PM of Turkeycould not have recognized
Bani Israel.Probably they drink whisky promote Sufism within above
history and can be Constructed as “principle of monoetheism” Guru.
I.e. monotheist Allah Vishnu Bhagwan Buddha or Lord Jesus with
Sodomist Gay Lesbian Priests Mullah Rabbis Ayatollah with gay rights
gay marriage gay divorce gay alimony foetus baby girl abortion gurus.
It is absurd that 400 million Muslims of Turkey Egypt Jordan
Philistine Pakistan have become Zionist and have aligned themselves
With Israel. Benefit of Joining above kind is many but going to
Hell is worst.
bulue_zacaria, Germany
foolish
i think what our president is doing is foolsih because if we cant have peace at our own home are we to create peace outside the country. All this talk is senseless because we have major issues in our country and no one is solving the. most of our political figures are eating away our countrys money without any what so ever help to the poor. when the poor dont have money they will rob the rich in the end we will have a crisis.
anonymus, Pakistan
Recognising he replica of Pontius Pilate regime.
The Europeans(the Romans) came to this part of Asia (Palestine) 2000 years ago. With them came the ungodly Roman culture. Roman culture is supremacy of the Romans and slavery, death and destruction for the non Romans. At the height of persecution of local Asian people by the ungodly Romans,the local Asian people saw the Romans take away their very popular holy man Jesus to be crucified by them(the Romans).
When the local Asian people, eventually became powerful enough, they threw out the European occupiers of their land.
About 1000 years ago the local Asian people once again endured the onslaught and occupation of their land by the new Romans. The new Romans again brought with them their Roman culture of death and destruction for the local Asian people. We are told that those Romans were in the following of the Asian holy man Jesus. How could any one displaying the ungodly and violent Roman ethics, be in the following of a man who preached, professed and practised the words of the Lord and led and showed people to lead virtuous and hence peaceful life? Those Europeans did not display any character of being in the following of Jesus as such were not Christians.
When after more than a century of enduring Roman culture, the local Asian people became strong, they threw out the Europeans once again.
Today we see that the British government helped create the replica of previuos Roman regimes with very similar kind of death and destruction for the local Asian people a daily happening.
There is utterly no doubt that Jesus and his fellow Asian people endured exactly similar kind of treatment as we see happening to the local Asian people and owner of their land, today.
This regime is in fact a replica of previous Roman regimes and very much like the prvious Roman regimes is a passing misery for the local Asian people. In other words this Roman outpost in Asia is a very temporary tragedy and just like the previous Roman regime bound to disappear.
We are told it is Israhyeel.
What a joke? The children of Israhyeel were Asian people and Godly people.
These people and many many influential Europeans can be seen to be crucifying Lord's Commandment as given to Moses.
So how can those who crucify the Commandments, who crucify the ethics of the holy Torah and the holy Bible be Jews or Christians?
People are known by their deeds. People cannot be Jews, Christians or Muslims if they do not prove to be so through their deeds.
The Commandment is "Thou shalt not commit murder". We see murder committed by the so called Christians and Jews every day.
The Cmmandment is "Thou shalt not steal". We can see that the Europeans have stolen Asian peoples' land that is Palestine. So how can these people crucifying the Commandments, be Jews.
I wonder, I do wonder, if by any chance Moses happened to pass that way. I mean through that Roman outpost in Asia. He will have an utterly mammoth task. He will need the help of Polpot to make mountain of the skulls of those Romans claiming to be Jews.
So if anyone is happy to recognise this "Roman outpost in Asia", certainly a passing phase, like before, please do, by all means, show your lack of "Wisdom and foresight".
H.Wasty, United Kingdom
Fatah, Turkey, Jordan, and Egypt have recognized Israel: Who is Pakistan siding with?
Some religious-wanna-be people on this board simply talk big about Muslim Ummah and Pakistan. These simpletons fail to notice that we will not be the first to recognize Israel. We all know that the deed of accepting Israel has been done by Fatah movement of Palestinians, and large Muslims countries like Egypt, Turkey, and Jordan. Has this act by so many Muslims countries really hurt Muslim Ammah? If so why don't we kick out these wayward countries out of OIC (organization of Islamic countries)? On the other hand if Turkey is still Muslim and still a major player in Islamic Ummah, then what stops Pakistan to follow suite?
The emotional and unreasonable reaction to Musharraf clearly shows that we have some Hammas or Hizbullah supporters masquerading as Pakistanis.
Dr. Qazi, United States of America
Our stand should be collective
AoA
i wont go into this if we should accept israel now /later or even never coz i dont think isreal needs that or would get any advantage at all out of pakistan's recognition. Let me say at the sme time that i dont see any great opportunities being missed while not acknowledging israel. we should realize that no body is going to make us rich, developed,... etc. we will have to do this on our own and israel is just like many other developed countries with which we have relations. so how could our decision be important ?? in my opinion only when its a collective decision of the whole arabs along with other islamic countries. Isreal would be happy if bigger muslims countries like follow egypt and recognize her alone one by one, to lower the significance of that collective recognition, which might make her to agree to some points. but single handedly no islamic country let alone Pakistan can cause that. furthermore, i think Musharraf is attempting the same, ie some how convince this collective recognition for some attractive benefits.
shahzad, Germany
You
You are debating about recognising Israel when they are already existing and doing much better than majority of the countries debating the recognition.
Jerry, Spain
Treatment of Palestinians
Alamsher Wazir writes: "It really is a sad situation. Millions of Palestinians have been made homeless, deprived of their dignity and under occupation for last 60 years,have every right to decide their future."
Mr. Wazir is correct, but don't stop the analysis there, because there is more to it.
YES Israel has mistreated millions of Palestinians, and that is a sad situation that people should be trying to change.
BUT, why does no one criticize Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia?
Millions of jews moved to Israel in the last 50 years, and they have houses, jobs, and good lives in Israel.
Millions of Palestinians are living in neighboring countries for over 50 years, yet they are STILL living in refugee camps! They are taken care of by international organizations. Why don't they have proper jobs? Why don't they have proper housing?
Why doesn't anyone pressure Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria to treat these Palestinians better? Shouldn't they also care about the well being of these people?
That is a sad situation as well, just like the treatment by Israel is a sad situation. That is why the Palestinians are worse off than almost any group on the planet: NO ONE really seems to care for them, the west, Israel, not even neighboring muslim countries!
Even their own rulers are corrupt, more interested in holding power and building large mansions with the international aid they get, than improving the lives of the common Palestinian people.
The New York Times had an article a few years ago in which a reporter went to the houses of the Hamas leaders. The houses were all as large as palaces, big even by US standards.
Meanwhile, you can search the internet for photos of how the majority of Palestinians live, with barely any water or electricity and without jobs.
People around the world should take more of an interest in actually improving the lives of the Palestinians, and less of an interest in just using them as a cheap and convenient way to condemn Israel.
Jeff, United States of America
A few comments
Many people have said that Israel depends on billions of dollars in aid from the USA: "A tiny country that thrives on billions of dollars from its benefactor,the United States"
Do NOT delude yourselves. Egypt gets as much money in aid from the US every year as Israel does, that is a fact. Israel is doing well because they work hard and they are on good terms with not only western countries but also with muslim countries in the region (Egypt, Jordan, Turkey), which is good for BOTH those countries and for Israel (economy).
And then there is the comment from "salah-uddin" about those who favor recognizing Israel need to study Islam more because Israel shouldn't be recognized for religious reasons. Come on, one of the main problems in modern Pakistan is too much study of religion while general education levels continue to decline and the population becomes more ignorant. Islam is a religion, it's not a tool to answer practical real life questions, no religion (jews, christians, hindus) should be used for that purpose. All people of every country and every religion should instead use COMMON SENSE.
As far as Israel wanting to expand and take over neighboring countries like Egypt and Jordan, that is a lie and a conspiracy theory. Israeli maps DO NOT show the whole area as being part of Israel. Israel recognizes those countries and has diplomatic relations with them. The whole idea is totally absurd and easily disproved by anyone who is willing to take 15 minutes and search the web for MAINSTREAM information on the subject.
Israel wanting to destroy AL-Aqsa is another conspiracy theory that makes no sense. They have been in control of the area for many many years now, why is it still there? Is it at all damaged? No.
As far as the recent repair work is concerned, it is NOT to build some jewish temple or christian church, it is just to FIX A BRIDGE that was damaged. Israel HAS AGREED to allow Turkey to watch over the work they are doing.
For information on such issues one should go to trusted sources like The Economist (historically very sympathetic to the Palestinian people's plight), rather than irrational conspiracy theorists like Al Jazeera.
Pakistan has a long history of freedom of the press, do not be duped by such ridiculous nonsense when you live in the free world and not in Syria or North Korea.
Jeff, United States of America
Why not recognize Israel
There are plenty of potential benefits. Right now Israel doesn't care what Pakistan thinks, because we don't recognize them. If we did, we could put more diplomatic pressure. Also, Israel has many advanced military and other technology that would be useful to a developing nation like Pakistan (as Israel currently cooperate with Turkey, for example).
I don't know how so many people who CLAIM to care about the Palestinian situation don't see this but ISRAEL WILL NOT IMPROVE THE SITUATION IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES UNLESS ISLAMIC COUNTRIES RECOGNIZE THEIR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO EXIST.
The fundamental questions are: 1) do you want to see the lives of those people actually improve or do you just want them to be a political tool to condemn Israel? 2) Do you want to see Pakistan become an advanced, rich, modern country that is a part of the 21st century or do you want it to be led by a small and vocal fundamentalist minority back into the middle ages?
It appears some people just want to focus on conflict, in Kashmir with India, in Palestine with Israel, and not on actually improving the situation. It's easy to talk big from the comfort of a good job in the UK or USA, but those living in Pakistan have to deal with everyday life in a developing nation.
As far as all the anti-Musharaff comments here: look how well the Pakistani economy is doing in the last few years now that we're not constantly on the brink of war over Kashmir. Musharaff sided with the US and some call him a sellout and coward but the result is economic improvement, military aid, removal of crippling sanctions, and billions of US dollars flowing into the country again. How can this be a bad thing.
What's is more important: abstract radicalism or a pragmatic style that actually improves the lives of 150 million Pakistanis?
Yes there are other important issues that need to be addressed: corruption, law and order, stability in various parts of the country, but there is no need to CHOOSE between them and recognizing Israel, Musharaff can do both.
Ali, Pakistan
Israel
Most muslims should recognise Israel.By doing so Israel would come under international comunities pressure and would have no excuse to continue occuping te land it grabed in 1967 and there after.Otherwise there would no Palistinian left in the area.America would not allow the destruction of Israel as long US is the sole superpower in the world.
T S Alavi, United Kingdom
Recognizing Israel
Well-one of the results of WWII is the creation of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq , UAE as well as the freedom of many countries in Asia and Africa.
So from a very realistic point of view, there is no poit to reject Israel and keep an un necessary conflict. Although, the Plastinian Arabs did suffer alot, which is very sad. Similarly, we must urge and expect Israel too not to over look the basic human rights and try to mend the damages. It will be ideal if the Jews and Muslims may creat blood relations on both sides instead of harming each other. After all Jews, Christains and Muslims do belong to the basic Samic background. 2ndly, it cab be very unwise, to reject Isreal and be in friendship with America and western world-this is just pointless then!
MAY PEACE PREVAIL ON EARTH. AMEN
Ejaz Baig Kanjudi, Pakistan
Recognizing Israel
Well-one of the results of WWII is the creation of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq , UAE as well as the freedom of many countries in Asia and Africa.
So from a very realistic point of view, there is no poit to reject Israel and keep an un necessary conflict. Although, the Plastinian Arabs did suffer alot, which is very sad. Similarly, we must urge and expect Israel too not to over look the basic human rights and try to mend the damages. It will be ideal if the Jews and Muslims may creat blood relations on both sides instead of harming each other. After all Jews, Christains and Muslims do belong to the basic Samic background.
MAY PEACE PREVAIL ON EARTH. AMEN
Ejaz Baig Kanjudi, Pakistan
Pakistani recognition of Israel
Does it matter to Israel? Every country wants to be friend of Israel and Jews. On the other hand everybody dislikes muhammedans and Pakis ( Spainish,French,British, Belgium, Indians, Chinese, Russians, Burmeese, Thais etc...). The only common thread between India,US,China,Russia,India, UK and other large countries are bind by war against Islamic terrorism.
Jews are the most valuable human capital today, and everybody wants their help. Most of the senior research associates in major tech companies (IBM,HP,Intel,Microsoft,GM,GE) are jews in USA (in their 50s) and junior research fellow are Indians, Chinees and Japanees (in their 20's and early 30's) in Bangalore,Sanghai,Singapore.
Unknown, India
Saucy and spicy forums
One main reason why these forum debates in Pak Tribune are becoming more saucy and spicy with participation of people from all types of nationalities is that the west has made Pakistan a one man show.
This reminds me about Edward Gibbon's grandest history work ever i.e "Decline and fall of the Roman Empire".
Gibbon has described in praise about one famous Islamic military general in his "Decline and fall of the roman Empire" as such:
"HIMSELF AN ARMY"
The great Islamic general of the past earned this title from Gibbon through his field marshal performance.
The west is trying to force us to believe about Musharraf the analogue comparison such as:
"HIMSELF THE NATION"
Now, the Pakistani nation is trying to extricate itself from its slighted status of 160 million people belittled before one man through the support of his some generals and overly empowered by America.
The nation is hearing the scary lashing hits about Musharraf's writs and empowerments of all sorts including women empowerment or any other empowerment bestowed upon by the powered and the empowered of the brass including the chief.
The 160 millions humble in confusion can express their views about where they stand in this game of worthynerss of their voices in decision making voices on international issues like this.
NO WONDER THESE FORUMS ARE BECOMING SAUCY AND SPICY.
Anwar Mahmood, Canada
To Mr Bill and Dr Qazi
This is only media debate and the berating accusation of one letter is seeming to take turn into swearing and money wise desparagement.
You are debating from America and not from a banana republic or underdeveloped country of Africa.
There is absolutely no threatening language used by Mr Shab Qureshi.He is just having his views to be returned with un-media language and money measure talks.
We muslims make much less money than we are worth in north America. Just few years ago i started making as much a month as a fedral minister here and published world class papers in the annual international conferences of leading gas knowledge houses like LRGCC Oklahoma, two world class papers in the same annual international conference of NACE 2004, America's gas processrs annual international conference 2004, Kyoto and some of them infilterated to US military publications. I could really chew any American or Canadian gas engineer in deep rooted knowledge. But, what i went through after jumping to world class knowledge with a very Islamic name of Muhammad or Mahmood can be judged by just me.
We tolerate thE latitudes of excesses and you guys cannot tolerate a simple discussion which has a surface touch any ways compared to true facts.
I know, and i know it sadly that north Americans love talking about money so much that they can be divorced and replaced by some one who makes 50 cents an hour more.And there goes your love down the drain as you failed to make that extra fifty cents an hour more than the better money maker.
It is sad to see that one dollar curse came into this decent media forum.In those poor countries one dollar can give you more services than 20 dollars.
The critics here are only expressing their sufferings and Mr Shab is not attacking verbally or other wise. He is not even desparaging or insulting any body.
Immigrants in many cases are worth many times they get paid and they are still happy, because money is not the ultimate God.
I am not crying if my income dropped from 18000 dollars a month as world class gas engineer to one fifth or one sixth due to some religious bigots.
If you call yourself democracy, then learn to play the tolerant game of democracy. Other wise tell us in blank words that we accept only one writ and no one will write any thing as the weorld's leading nation has gone haywire.
Look at all the troubles in the world due to bellicose belligerancy.
THE WORLD CAN BE MADE MUCH HAPPIER PLACE THROUGH TOLERANCE AMONGST ALL INCLUDING THE JEWS.SOME ONE FROM ISRAEL ALREADY HAS A LETTER HERe SDLIGHTING THIS WHOLE DEBATE AND SOME BODY'S DEDICATION CALLING IT JUST A MERE GESTURE.I FEEL SORRY FOR MUSHARRAF FOR SWEATING FOR SOMETHING WHICH IS ONLY A MERE GESTURE.
DEMOCRACY ALLOWS FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND DOES NOT LOOK AT A PERSON'S DOLLAR SWINGS.
I WAS MAKING ALMOST HUNDRED DOLLARS AN HOUR ON MY WORLD CLASS GAS ENGINEERING WORK AND I NEVER COMPLAINED THAT SOME PEOPLE IN AMERICA WERE MAKING 500 DOLLARS PER HOUR FOR SIMILAR WORK.EVEN THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES THAT MONEY IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVILS AND THERE IS NO NEED TO JUDGE THE PEOPLE BY THE MONEY THEY EARN.
I CAN POINT OUT THAT THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF MISINFORMATION IN THE WORK THAT IS BEING PAID THE BEST, ESPECIALLY IN GAS ENGINEERING. I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE BOOK THAT IS CALLED BIBLE FOR GAS PURIFICATION ENGINEERING HAS TERRIBLE MISINFORMATION TO BLOW UP A GAS PLANT OR PIPE LINE FLOW REGIME IF YOU BELIEVE THAT MISINFORMATION.
DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PIPE LINE FAILURES IN NORTH AMERICA EVERY YEAR DUE TO MIS- INFORMATION AND SAME IS TRUE ABOUT GAS PLANTS.
MUSLIMS ARE BEING BASHED AND THEY HAVE REASON TO COMPLAIN AT THE VERY MINIMUM.
YOU CANNOT FORCE A CORNERED MAN NOT TO EVEN COMPLAIN.
I AM LEAVING NORTH AMERICA IN FEW MONTHS AFTER LIVING HERE FORTY YEARS. I FOUND THE TRUE COLOURS ONLY WHEN I STARTED VENTURING INTO THE WORLD CLASS GAS ENGINEERING WITH A VERY ISLAMIC NAME.
AND I CAN TELL EVERY BODY THAT I WILL BOOT MILLION DOLLARS AN HOUR RATHER THAN CHANGING MY VERY ISLAMIC NAME FOR MORE BREAD AND BUTTER.DEEP IN MY HEART I AM A MUSLIM AND I AM PROUD OF MY VERY ISLAMIC NAME.
WE WILL GO ON TOP AGAIN-INSHALLAH AS WE WERE FOR CENTURIES.
Anwar Mahmood, Canada
Pakistanis settled in the West and yet they are against Israel
It is ironic to see so many Pakistanis from USA and other Western countries are talking hell against President Musharraf's stance on Israel. If that is so, these Pakistanis should first tell their adopted countries to "de-recognize" Israel. Why it is that these Pakistanis left Pakistan for greener pastures. They want to live in the West, take all the economic advantage as a person, and yet deny Pakistan the same thing you yourselves have done with your feet, hands and eyes.
All these Pakistanis should help bring in more business to Pakistan. Instead they are busy giving Pakistan lectures on something that they themselves have accepted by living in the West.
Dr. Qazi, United States of America
Shab Quereshi is a retard
This is the problem. This guy Shab goes on a crazy anti-US and Anti-Israel tirade and then you scroll down and see where he lives- UNITED STATES. If the US is so bad why are you there?? GET OUT. The reason why you are there is because you are able to because it is a free country. Then you berate it. Stop wasting my government money and get out and go make 1 dollar an hour if your lucky somewhere else.
Bill, United States of America
salam
hi
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THINK DEEP FOR MUSLIM NATION
WE BEING THE TRUE THINKERS OF THIS MUSLIM NATION MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE SAYINGS OF MUSHARRAF SORRY PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF.WE MUST RECOGNIZE THE ZIONIST STATE TO EASE THE ZIONIST HARMS TO PELISTINIANS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY.AFTER RECOGNITION THIS WILL HELP PAKISTAN TO HAVE MORE SUPPORT FROM WEST;UNDER JEWS,THROUGH MUSHARRAF.MUSHARRAF CAN MAKE ARMY STRONGER,DEVELOPE MORE TECHNOLOGIES TO FACE THE POSSIBLE THREATS OF FUTURE,TO PAKISTAN,BY WEST OR MAY BE EAST.MUSHARRAF IS DOING ALL THIS FOR PAKISTAN.IF NOT THEN WHAT CAN U DO EXCEPT WRITING OR READING THESE TYPE OF PUBLIC PAGES.WE MUST TRUST OUR LEADER.IF NOT THEN ADAPT THE LEADERSHIP QUALITIES FROM OUR STANDARD.AND THE STANDARD OF MUSLIM NATION LIES IN HOLY QURAN AND THE SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.IF U CHANGE UR STANDARD THEN MAY BE U R DOING THE BEST FOR MUSLIM NATION BUT PEOPLE WILL STILL THINK OF U WRONG.AND U WILL BE CONTRADICTED JUST LIKE MUSHARRAF IS NOW BEING AIMED.AT LAST I WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER A VERY INNOCENT QUESTION THAT WHAT SHOULD OF MUSHARRAF THINK FIRST PELISTINE,WAZIRISTAN,KASHMIR,ETC.I THINK FIRST OF ALL ONLY MUSHARRAF SHOULD NOT THINK OF THESE ISSUES WE SHOULD ALSO DO THAT FAVOUR WITH REFERENCE TO HOLY QURAN AND SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.MUSHARRAF HAS TRIED TO SOLVE PROBLEM OF ALL THESE ISSUES BY CONSIDERING THEM AS A GENERAL ANTIMUSLIM CONSPIRACIES ALL OVER THE WORLD BY GIVING SUGGESTION OF RECOGNIZING ZIONIST STATE.NOW THE QUESTION IS WHO LIVES LONGER PESIDENT MUSHARRAF OR THE ZIONIST STATE.IF NOTHING IS GOOD STILL DONE BY MUSHARRAF THEN THINK URSELF THINK DEEP FOR THE MUSLIM NATION.BUT ALWAYS REMEMBER WHATEVER LEADER U GET IN UR PRESENCE ALWAY FOLLOW UR STANDARD,THE STANDARD OF MUSLIMS AND THE STANDARD IS ROPE OF GOD COMPRISED OF HOLY QURAN AND THE SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.MY THESE STATEMENTS REFLECT NOT MY FAVOUR TO MUSHARRAF BUT TO THE DEMAND OF OUR STANDANRD.AND THE SECURITY OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THIS STANDARD TRULY,I MEAN THE MUSLIM NATION.
SALMAN MALIK, Pakistan
syed taqi, Pakistan
Attn; Editor Paktribune
Editor Pak Tribune :
Enough of this discussion. Let us move to some other topic. Musharraf is not bound by any legal restrictions.He is not elected by masses.As long as other generals are behind him, he will set his own agenda.One thing for sure.He is no Charles DeGaul of France. Once he is removed from power,like Zia Ul Haq, people will forget him in a heartbeat.
mik, United States of America
US,Israel,musharraf are enemies of muslims/Pakistan
Israel is a closer friend to India than Pakistan will ever be.
Israeli nuclear weapon loaded submarines patrol the sea near Karachi regularly.
Israel does not have a clear cut map of where Israel starts and it ends.
Israel has been taking land from Palestinians even today as I write this sentence.
Israel even occupied the land which was in Jordan declared by Jordanian king to be Palestinian land,guess what happened to that?Israel occupied it.Jordanian king gave it away to Israel(fact)
Look at Israeli map and see the zionist jewish settlements all over the palestinian areas.
Guess what Musharraf or any pro US ruler cannot do a darn thing.Just because Israel is a partner with US in its crusade against all the muslim countries including Pakistan.
Israel has been trainig kurds in Iraq against Turkey for years with Turkish army's compliance.
Turkish generals even let Israeli air force planes stationed in Turkey for years.
Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor which was for peaceful purposes,actually a small research reactor.
Israel destroyed the whole civilian infra-structure i.e. bridges,roads,hospitals,dispansaries,power-plants supplying electricity,drinking water plants,grain storage areas to punish civilian population for two Israeli soldiers taken as prisners of war by Hizbullah.
Israel has regularly threatened to destroy Saudi Arabia's airforce planes because they were stationed in Saudi-Arabia but that area is not far from Israel.Saudis always obliged.
Israel has bombed civilian bridges and water reservoirs in Syria and lebanon without provocation.Israel has bombed Palestinians in Tunis,lebanon,Syria,egypt and other places.For Israel borders donot exist.Israel does not recognize sovereignity of any muslim country.
Israel has been shoulder deep in the holocast of Palestinians since 1948 and it never stops.
Israelis have killed pregnant women,infants,children,elderly and unarmed palestinian civilians without mercy.
Israel has buldozed Palestinian houses,destroyed their orchards and then build jewish settlements on them without compensation or remorse.
Israel is a hegemonist(believes other countries are to be subordinated to it)and is a racist country.
Israel was closest friend to White SouthAfrican partheid rulers and helped in killing its african citizensand keeping them in small areas called Bantustans.
Israel has an apartheid system in existance against Palestinians and bantustans in Palestine and Jerusalem.
Israel has no respect for muslim holy places in Israel.Israel is digging around the 3rd holiest muslim site(Dome of Rock) in Israel at this writing.Purpose?To bring it down so they can start building the jewish temple to bring the Jesus(for christians) and jewish messiah for the last time and 1000 year rule of Jews and christians.
These are the facts.You decide if you want Israel as a friend.
shab Qureshi, United States of America
Israeli plan for Islamic countries
A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties
by Oded Yinon
This essay originally appeared in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No, 14--Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari, Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization, Jerusalem.
1
At the outset of the nineteen eighties the State of Israel is in need of a new perspective as to its place, its aims and national targets, at home and abroad. This need has become even more vital due to a number of central processes which the country, the region and the world are undergoing. We are living today in the early stages of a new epoch in human history which is not at all similar to its predecessor, and its characteristics are totally different from what we have hitherto known. That is why we need an understanding of the central processes which typify this historical epoch on the one hand, and on the other hand we need a world outlook and an operational strategy in accordance with the new conditions. The existence, prosperity and steadfastness of the Jewish state will depend upon its ability to adopt a new framework for its domestic and foreign affairs.
2
This epoch is characterized by several traits which we can already diagnose, and which symbolize a genuine revolution in our present lifestyle. The dominant process is the breakdown of the rationalist, humanist outlook as the major cornerstone supporting the life and achievements of Western civilization since the Renaissance. The political, social and economic views which have emanated from this foundation have been based on several "truths" which are presently disappearing--for example, the view that man as an individual is the center of the universe and everything exists in order to fulfill his basic material needs. This position is being invalidated in the present when it has become clear that the amount of resources in the cosmos does not meet Man's requirements, his economic needs or his demographic constraints. In a world in which there are four billion human beings and economic and energy resources which do not grow proportionally to meet the needs of mankind, it is unrealistic to expect to fulfill the main requirement of Western Society,1 i.e., the wish and aspiration for boundless consumption. The view that ethics plays no part in determining the direction Man takes, but rather his material needs do--that view is becoming prevalent today as we see a world in which nearly all values are disappearing. We are losing the ability to assess the simplest things, especially when they concern the simple question of what is Good and what is Evil.
3
The vision of man's limitless aspirations and abilities shrinks in the face of the sad facts of life, when we witness the break-up of world order around us. The view which promises liberty and freedom to mankind seems absurd in light of the sad fact that three fourths of the human race lives under totalitarian regimes. The views concerning equality and social justice have been transformed by socialism and especially by Communism into a laughing stock. There is no argument as to the truth of these two ideas, but it is clear that they have not been put into practice properly and the majority of mankind has lost the liberty, the freedom and the opportunity for equality and justice. In this nuclear world in which we are (still) living in relative peace for thirty years, the concept of peace and coexistence among nations has no meaning when a superpower like the USSR holds a military and political doctrine of the sort it has: that not only is a nuclear war possible and necessary in order to achieve the ends of Marxism, but that it is possible to survive after it, not to speak of the fact that one can be victorious in it.2
Rest will be posted in installments.
shab Qureshi, Pakistan
voted
democracy , the peoples will.
wali, Pakistan
THINK DEEP FOR MUSLIM NATION
WE BEING THE TRUE THINKERS OF THIS MUSLIM NATION MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE SAYINGS OF MUSHARRAF SORRY PRESIDENT MUSHARRAF.WE MUST RECOGNIZE THE ZIONIST STATE TO EASE THE ZIONIST HARMS TO PELISTINIANS DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY.AFTER RECOGNITION THIS WILL HELP PAKISTAN TO HAVE MORE SUPPORT FROM WEST;UNDER JEWS,THROUGH MUSHARRAF.MUSHARRAF CAN MAKE ARMY STRONGER,DEVELOPE MORE TECHNOLOGIES TO FACE THE POSSIBLE THREATS OF FUTURE,TO PAKISTAN,BY WEST OR MAY BE EAST.MUSHARRAF IS DOING ALL THIS FOR PAKISTAN.IF NOT THEN WHAT CAN U DO EXCEPT WRITING OR READING THESE TYPE OF PUBLIC PAGES.WE MUST TRUST OUR LEADER.IF NOT THEN ADAPT THE LEADERSHIP QUALITIES FROM OUR STANDARD.AND THE STANDARD OF MUSLIM NATION LIES IN HOLY QURAN AND THE SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.IF U CHANGE UR STANDARD THEN MAY BE U R DOING THE BEST FOR MUSLIM NATION BUT PEOPLE WILL STILL THINK OF U WRONG.AND U WILL BE CONTRADICTED JUST LIKE MUSHARRAF IS NOW BEING AIMED.AT LAST I WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER A VERY INNOCENT QUESTION THAT WHAT SHOULD OF MUSHARRAF THINK FIRST PELISTINE,WAZIRISTAN,KASHMIR,ETC.I THINK FIRST OF ALL ONLY MUSHARRAF SHOULD NOT THINK OF THESE ISSUES WE SHOULD ALSO DO THAT FAVOUR WITH REFERENCE TO HOLY QURAN AND SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.MUSHARRAF HAS TRIED TO SOLVE PROBLEM OF ALL THESE ISSUES BY CONSIDERING THEM AS A GENERAL ANTIMUSLIM CONSPIRACIES ALL OVER THE WORLD BY GIVING SUGGESTION OF RECOGNIZING ZIONIST STATE.NOW THE QUESTION IS WHO LIVES LONGER PESIDENT MUSHARRAF OR THE ZIONIST STATE.IF NOTHING IS GOOD STILL DONE BY MUSHARRAF THEN THINK URSELF THINK DEEP FOR THE MUSLIM NATION.BUT ALWAYS REMEMBER WHATEVER LEADER U GET IN UR PRESENCE ALWAY FOLLOW UR STANDARD,THE STANDARD OF MUSLIMS AND THE STANDARD IS ROPE OF GOD COMPRISED OF HOLY QURAN AND THE SAYINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD PBUH.MY THESE STATEMENTS REFLECT NOT MY FAVOUR TO MUSHARRAF BUT TO THE DEMAND OF OUR STANDANRD.AND THE SECURITY OF THOSE WHO FOLLOW THIS STANDARD TRULY,I MEAN THE MUSLIM NATION.
SALMAN MALIK, Pakistan
Musharraf & Israel
I fail to understand why Musharraf is acting like cabin boy for Neocons of US administration.Israel is client state of USA.If there is any possibility of peace between Palestinians & Israelis,US has to act as honest broker.If Israel is such an economic power then why does she take billions of
dollars every year from USA?Wake up people, Musharraf'is showboating.All those who are voicing their opinions in his favor do not realize that he already has U turned on the rights of another Muslim entity- Kashmiris.Why should Palestinians trust him ?
m i k, United States of America
Musharaffs Legacy
Endowed with limitations as his qualifications and in power by default, Visionless and bird-brained Musharraf will leave behind a legacy wherein a day will come when he will be disowned by his own grandsons and greatgrandsons and his name will be registered as a name for shame and deciet and I doubt very much if there will be another Mushraff ever again.
Parvez Malik, Pakistan
Biased Shoa were United
The war of 1948 resulted in the establishment of the Israeli state on a 78 percent of historical Palestine. We found ourselves, those who have remained in their homeland (approximately 160,000) within the borders of the Jewish state. Such reality has isolated us from the rest of the Palestinian People and the Arab world and we were forced to become citizens of Israel. This has transformed us into a minority living in our historic homeland.
Since the Al-Nakba of 1948 (the Palestinian tragedy), we have been suffering from extreme structural discrimination policies, national oppression, military rule that lasted till 1966, land confiscation policy, unequal budget and resources allocation, rights discrimination and threats of transfer. The State has also abused and killed its own Arab citizens, as in the Kufr Qassem massacre, the land day in 1976 and Al-Aqsa Intifada back in 2000.
Since Al-Nakba and despite all, we maintained our identity, culture, and national affiliation; we struggled and are still struggling to obtain just, comprehensive and permanent peace in the Middle East region, through achieving fair and lasting resolution concerning the Palestinian refugees' resolutions status according to UN and for reaching peace through the declaration of an independent Palestinian State.
Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State. Therefore, we call for a Consensual Democratic system that enables us to be fully active in the decision-making process and guarantee our individual and collective civil, historic, and national rights.
In light of this modern complex history, we are moving towards a new era of self-recognition, where it is necessary to create our future path, crystallize our collective identity and draw up our social and political agenda. The establishment of the High Follow up Committee for the Arabs in Israel was a pivotal point in the history of our community where such committee became the highest representative body for all other public and political organizations.
Based on this reality of collective internal changes, the project presented by this document is a continuation of our struggle towards crystallizing clear strategic future vision for the Arab Palestinians in Israel. The project aims at answering the question, "who are we and what do we want for our society?"
In order to obtain this goal, the future vision will be followed by tangible practical steps and a concrete action plan with specific goals. We recommend such document to be a public reference. This document includes all streams of the Arab society, as this vision is an independent Palestinian rhetoric. We hope this future vision would yield unity between different and sometimes contradicting viewpoints and beliefs on the basis of our national collective principles and interests.
The National Committee of the Local Arab Authorities in Israel is responsible for implementing this project, a project which was presented to the High Follow up Committee of the Arabs in Israel.
This project was implemented in two stages:
1. A Steering committee was created. It contributed to the objectives and strategies of the project to include its actual implementation and check the scope of conformity of the goals with the mechanisms of the program.
2. A future vision was crystallized by meetings of Arab intellects and activists throughout the year. This stage is concluded by holding a general conference and a presentation of a conference book that will include the final and complete version of the future vision.
We hope that our vision would contribute to change our reality and to impact the Israeli agenda, in an effective and positive way. This is a continuous process of the public action that the High Follow up Committee had been implementing since its establishment. We also hope to enrich the public discussion amongst us, Palestinians in the Diaspora, the Jewish society in Israel and the international public opinion.
Shokat Saleem, Germany
Egotistic General
It is very ironic that Musharaf is calling for the recognition of Isreal to bring peace to Palistine. Kashmir is still in pain from what Musharaf did by blocking aid to freedom fighters in the valley. The only benefit Musharaf wants is that of muslim blood being spilled and the ummah to become slaves of the Zionist movement. Musharaf is a sell out and can not be trusted.
Afzal, United States of America
recognising israel
As everybody know Israel is a state recognised by many countries of the world , so its not a matter to recognise ISRAEL. THE only matter that arises is about the relations , i mean on which ground pakistan will promote relations with Israel. SO i think its a nice move that Musharraf will make in the coming days. It can in turn bring piece in the middle east. Also our economy will be at the best. So its the need of the day.Its not the american call on which Musharraf is recognising ISRAEL. I personally agree with MUsharraf decision
shah nawaz, Pakistan
In response to Daoud Mateen,USA
Mr Daoud,You did not research what you wrote.You copied the page by Kadeemah(a Zionist)on the website:FLAME.Here is the web address.Check it out.
http://www.factsandlogic.org/outstanding_accomp_pr.html
Cell Phone was invented at AT&T as Car Phone.
Windows NT and XP were invented by Dave Cutler of Digital Equipment Corp,USA.
Pentium processor was developed by Vinod Dham(indian) at Intel,USA
I can go on and on.Israeli's
will pretend they did it,but it does not pan out.It is a zionist propaganda.Watch out.
Shabbir Qureshi, United States of America
Musharraf is a traitor and evil
He want to recognise Israel.Israel does not have well defined borders.So,how do you decide?Israel's zionist map covers egypt,saudi arabia,lebanon,syria ,kuwait and Iraq.You decide.You wanna give away all those countries to Israel? and let it keep doing ethenic cleansing and holocaust of not only Palestinians but other muslim countries?It is time to wake up.Musharraf already accepted to be a head of a US vassal state,now he wants to impose that on everybody in Pakistan.Please wake up and fight for not only Pakistan but the whole muslim world,before it gets colonized and its oil resources and other riches by US,Israel and its anglo-sexon cousins(US empire).
Shabbir Qureshi, United States of America
Lets work for peace
Let us focus on common interest between Pakistan and Israel; we will find out that it is peace. Both pakistan and israel want peace, terrorist in Middle East want to give Pakistan negative image about Israel but they will not succeed. Its time to be educated, open minded.
Ammad, Pakistan
Recognising Israel
Sir,
I beg Pacistan NOT to recognise Israel. Do not sell your soul for a few sheckels.Israel should never have been created. It should be dismantled and its inhabitants scattered to the four corners of the planet.
Eddie Greenwood, United Kingdom
what is right what is wrong
considering pakistan we often say to get aid ,help by giving help to other countries. we need take strong initiative for developing good on our oun resources instead looking for other's hand .Pakistan being Nuclear State had not yet been able to get grace as it would be.
we always take strong action but for others purpose and distribut the public openion .we need to gather it for ourself .hopefully we get leader ship that develope whole this.
Faheem, Pakistan
Musharaf
I have read quite a few comments against Musharaf of Pakistan and comments from Mr. Jamal from Morocco, really disgust me. Luckily Moroccans neighboring with European countries has good influence on their economy and Pakistan on the other hand is neighboring enemies. Pakistan was born in 1947 without the soul (Kashmir). Until now our minds are set to free our soul. We developed negative trend, which really pushed us back instead of going forward. Education level dropped in the nation and now we are struggling to compete with others. Musharaf stand up when negativity resulted in 911 and we as a nation got blamed for. We did support USA because we have no other choice. USA supported us later on with money and military support. Money poured into the economy and we paid our debts of decades to IMF. Musharaf is all positive smart politician and we are moving forward. People all over the world are now pouring money because all the energy with the help of USA is now transferred into the economy, which seamlessly moving in the direction of growth. No matter how divided we are now, the political parties and Moulanas who are not happy due to Madarsa issues, Hasba bills and women rights, soon they will realized that some bad influence use Islam as a tool to kill innocent people, if these Moulanas want, they can help Musharaf to reform madrasas and image of Islam. The word is out and people of Pakistan will soon realize that Masharaf is making it all happen in the country. India has realized after long time that keeping our soul is not going to benefit them anymore. Pakistan is growing faster than anyone can imagine. If India is still stubborn in their approach to let our soul go, suffering will follow their good fortune. The political infrastructure, where people of Pakistan in the next elections, must vote, must not involve religion in politics, and the word like “Muslims and Islamic” must be taken out from a political process and parties, and can only use for charitable organizations. The Muslims must now awake and, taking their example from the glorious life and the marvelous teachings of the Holy Prophet, build their spiritual and religious faith on Mohammed (SALAM) and work for the development in science, knowledge and political and social advance along the lines of the most progressive races of mankind to a place of equality with Christian Europe and America. Musharaf no matter what people think, is not the ambassador to USA promoting the idea to recognize Israel, but he conveyed the secret message to the Islamic world and soon everybody will know the truth.
Aslam Sheikh, Pakistan
Recognising Israel
A clown is trying to run the circus.Musharraf of Pakistan is on the trail of self promotion.Do you really believe that World takes him seriously ? To resolve Palestine-Israel issue, you need men of stature & integrity. Men like Nelson Mandella, Ex President Jimmy Carter provided Israel is sincere to come forward without any pre-conditions.
IKN, United States of America
israel recognisation over muslims dead bodyies
i dont understand what happend to the muslims. they have lost their roots. the purpose of a muslim life is to follow islam even if he die for this thats not a problem but Allah sholud be happy with him. those people who r agreed with musharraf to recognised israel, they need to study about islam in details because near the judgment day the anticris for christian and DAJJAL for muslims will come from there and the fight between jews and muslims will be ended by the jesus peace be upon him(ESSA ALEH SALAM)who will come in damascus (syria)and will offer pray with IMAM MEHDI(the finest leader of the muslims and every one wil foloow him). so the peoples who thinks that by accepting isrel we can get benefits, i want to tell them that muslims dont need benefits, if we get benefits by leaving our islamic roots then muslim should spit on this sort of benefits. the jews called muslims the wild animals with two legs and they think after get full control on isreal and palestine they can (astagfirulla)destry the mosque AL-Aqsa and can make their own temple from which their king and for muslims (DAJJAL)and for (CHRISTIANANTI-CRIST)will come and according ot the jews when that gr8 king appear they can rule all over the world, including (astagfirullah) MAKKAH and MADINA. so those people who r trying to impose on pkistani people to accpet israel, in reality they r appreciating israel to ruin the muslims third holy MOSQUE AL-AQSA from where the prophet muhammd [eace be upon hime been to (MAIRAJ, journry to the sky) and they r also helping israel to give a call for dajjal who will be true evil . so just for some virtuall benefits which is only for this world we should not accept israel and those who will do he must commit himself a gr8 sin.
salah-uddin, United Kingdom
Whats the Harm?
Its difficult to understand why people think that by not reconginzing Isreal it would not exist. Well whether we reconginze it or not it exists, the mere fact that it exists is that we all have posted our comments regarding it, which shows that "WE KNOW THAT ITS THERE", we talk about Isreal, blame Isreal about the oppression of Palestanians which also shows that its there, then why dont we accept this reality that it is there and whether we close our eyes and keep on denying its existance by not reconginzing it as a state it is there. So lets stop this Ostrich or pigeon strategy and face the reality.
If we want to discuss the matter of Palestine with Isreal then how do you suppose it is possible? How can Pakistan negotiate or discuss matters pertaining to palestine which according to it does not exist. isnt it funny that we are commenting about a state that does not exist (as far as pakistanis are concerned).
Jehanzeb, Pakistan
Recognizing Israel
Commando General cum President
has embarked on a mission of self-interest.If survival of Pakistan is tied to recognition of Israel, it is a height ofself capitulation.A tiny country that thrives on billions of dollars from its benefactor,the United States, is no more than regional bully.What financial gains Pakistan is expecting from Israel ?It really is a sad situation. Millions of Palestinians have been made homeless, deprived of their dignity and under occupation for last 60 years,have every right to decide their future.
They don't need Musharraf's double faced diplomacy.
Alamsher Wazir, United States of America
Musharraf is an american puppet.
He is just an American puppet trying to prolong his power as far as he can. He is capable of doing anything for that purpose. He is just a foolish soldier ruling a nation of illiterates. I pray to Allah Almighty to end this hard period and have mercy on the Muslim brethren in Pakistan.
jamal, Morocco
Recognizing Israel
So Musharraf has started speaking on behalf of Palestinians !!Who gave him this mandate?Let Arab firends of USA like, Egypt,Jordan and Saudi Arabia come forward and resolve Israel-Palestine issue.I suggest that General take hold of his mental faculties & devote time to Pakistan's internal problems. It is a matter of principle. Let Israel recognize rights of Palestinians first before General starts his lunatic endevours.
I.K.Niazi, Pakistan
Pakistan to gain much by recognizing Israel
I believe that Pakistani people should wakeup and come to the senses and accept the reality by accepting the very existance of Israel.
I belive that Pakistan can play its big brotherly role to bring peace between Israel and Palestine by recognizing Irarel.
I am glad to hear that some one in Paksitan government is talking sense. We can be emotional and lose it all or we can be cool and smart and win it all.
Wake up Pakistanis and work for peace and prosperity in home.
Zubair Choudhry, Canada
Yes! we should sell our souls (if left any).
America is our almighty not Allah?
Are we waiting for another earthquake?
I'm more disturbed to see fellow muslim views on this page than Mushrraf himself.
UMMATI, United States of America
Re: Recognition.
Why was Pakistan created? was
it not on bases of religion to protect our interest.Do the Jews have not the same Right! Perhaps the descedants
of Abraham should now learn to break bread at the same
table. But that can only be done,when both parties give up their illegal claims.One gives up completely the land
taken forcefully and other to
accept the existence of the reality.
Khalid Rahim, Canada
Perspective
As many of you have already highlighted the bottom-line: Pakistan may need us, but we have no use for them!
Therefore Pakistan recognizing Israel would be a nice gesture, but merely a gesture…
bill, Israel
Sources...?
"President General Musharraf who is currently visiting the Middle East has called upon the Muslim countries and their masses to 'recognise' Israel for resolution of Palestine issue. This is not the fist statement made by the military General. By time and again, he has ' urged' the Pakistani nation to ' think' about recognition of Israel as Pakistan can get numerous benefits by doing that."
Please provide sources.
Thanks.
d j,
comments from a Pakistani nationalist
As everyone knows, Pakistan has a lot of internal and external problems. And even if pakistan will just win 0.01 US dollar by recognising Israel, Pakistan must recognise Israel. I am just a Pakistani nationalist and I just think about the well ness of my country.
Abbas, Belgium
Israel is a reality, it’s not going away unless you kill every last one of them. There will never be a perfect solution for one small piece of land claimed by two people, one side will be the winner the other will be the loser.
Here is a novel concept for the Palestinians. Give up on the infidatia, it’s been a disaster. Declare a permanent cease-fire, invest in education and infrastructure, prevent attacks on Israel, and work at developing trade with Israel, Lebanon and Egypt. After 5-10 years of peace, work out a deal to develop the gas fields offshore, invest the money into the people in particular higher education, strive to make Gaza and West bank similar to Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai. If they do this, the Israeli’s will be falling over themselves to do business with the Palestinians. Both side can stop burying their kids and have some sort of future.
Colin, Canada
Will it save the muslim world
Let me say this word, "Individuality" not a religious word. USA Israel may not be our ally, but these guys care about every citizen in their country regardless of religions or sects. I am not sure if accepting Israel will stop killing in Iraq, but I know it will release pressure on most of Muslim’s countries to move forward. We have some negative forces in Islam. Allah said in Quran, that “do not judge, but only Allah can judge” take an example of Hasba Bill (not in force as yet) in northern Pakistan, forcing people to obey rules of Islam never ever done by Prophet of Islam. Look in Saudi Arab, sorry to say, do you see any Church or Hindu temple, no respect for other religion that not Islam teaches. Never offer citizenship to outsiders in their country, No respect for individuality. On the contrary USA offers (What is the teaching of Islam)? Saudis do not rely on oil income, but money from pilgrimage brings in more revenue than they can ever handle, from Muslims all over the world. USA intelligence monitors the entire oil wells and security by the help of Pakistani Army, reason getting inside oil deals. Right this minutes USA admit that they made blunder, going into war in Iraq reason not protecting the interest of Saudis and themselves. You can dislike, but hate is not allowed in Islam whatsoever, reason more killing, bombing in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Let us go back in history and, the killing of celebrity of Islam in Karbala, show no mercy, no regret? The mind of every Muslims is in shock? No truce in Islam?
Prophet (Salam) said:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim, which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not therefore do injustice to yourselves. Remember one day you will meet Allah and answer your deeds. So beware: do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone
Aslam Sheikh, Pakistan
Mr. Miles comments has prompted me to send some of the following facts about Israel, the country most Muslims around the world love to hate.
> Israel the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following :
> The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center
in Israel .
> Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
> The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel .
> Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were
entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
> The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
> Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
> Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
> The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
> Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate oil-rich neighbors and others combined.
> Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
> Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
> With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the
highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U.S.
> Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the
UK.
> On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.
> Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States
and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
> Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area once considered mainly desert.
> Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
> Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast
cancer.
> Israel's Given Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders .
> Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
....Not bad for a people that their neighbors love to call apes and pigs.
Daoud Mateen, United States of America
Pakistan and Israel
Pakistan is a backward country of little or no consequence other than its geography. It can benefit hugely from countries like Israel by providing its population much needed higher education and financial capital. Recognition if Israel and friendship with India will benefit Pakistan more than any hobnobbing with any of the Arab states.
Farhan, United States of America
Where is national interest?
Very true, Israel doesnt really care if we regonize them or not. Economically it would only be better for us. Having said that, giving the excuse of recogzning Israel to solve Palestine issue, is not good enough, I think Pakistani has enough internal conflicts, unemployment and poverty to deal with them rather than worrying about another country.
Uzair Usman, United Kingdom
Peace comes through a dialogue
I have no idea as to how many Pakistani and Indians who commented President Musharaf's suggestion to recognise Israel, but I have been to Israel twice in Dec 2006. My visits were first and foremost in connection with my lectures at an Interfaith Conference and also to see for myself, what Israel stand for and how Israeli and Palestinian NGOs work together.
In my conversations with the Israeli politicians,intellectuals, journalists,NGOs and the common man on the street, I got this distinct impression that Israelis placed a great value on Pakistan and would be very happy to establish diplomatic relations.Even at Tel Aviv airport, the immigration officer displaced joy that a person with Pakistani roots came to visit the holy land. I prayed at the wailing wall and talked to many who were praying there.
No one showed any hostility after knowing that I originally come from Pakistan but now live in Denmark.
My trips clearly showed that we must differentiate between the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Jewish people.Israel can be of a great help to Pakistan in agriculture sector,science and technology and Pakistan can use its good offices to broker a deal. Both Israelis and Palestinians respect President Musharaf and consider him as a very visionary statesman. Those Pakistanis,especially the ones who are religious and day dream of a Khalafat are living in a fools paradise.We live in 2007 and must act rationally.Pakistan's national interests must come first and anything else afterwards. Those both Indians and Pakistanis who keep on bad mouthing President Musharaf as USA's lacky or against Islam are doing so because they let their limited information cloud their judgement.I sincerely believe that President Musharaf has saved Pakistan from USA's wrath and by doing so have showed a great sense of real politics. He knows that nations do not have friends but only interests.
His policies towards Kashmir solution,his advise to recognise Israel as a reality and good relations with USA are based on Pakistan's national interests. For that he deserves all the support, he can get.
Peace in Pakistan,is very much linked with peace in the world. I am not a fan of USA but neither, I want Pakistan to be ruled my religious extremists who are ignorant of what is happening around them in the world.
So coming back to your questions, I can only say this;"Pakistan should expolre all evenues which can enhance its influence in the world as a country of progress and modernity.Any thing else will be a political and economic suicide".
Bashy Quraishy, Denmark
Is Pakistan really that effective in the Muslim World?
I see many posters seem to suggest that Pakistan's acceptance of Israel is somehow detrimental to the causes of Islamic world. Or somehow Islamic world itself has achieved significance in the global politics so Pakistan can say No to Israel and get something in return. Here is some analysis to show the standing of Pakistan and then the condition of Islamic world.
1. Pakistan's role in the Muslim world
Short answer: Not much.
Why?
Pakistan's annual budget drives the level of influence it may exert in a given sphere. Not many Pakistanis are aware that Pakistan's annual budget is just over $20 billion a year. This is so tiny for a population of 160 million that Pakistan can't do more than lip service even if our hearts are in the right place (in terms of helping Umma or ghair-Umma). Isn't it sad that our troops go to peace missions but they don't have their own helicopters to ferry them out of dangerous situations? Our jobless rate is sky high, road infrastructure is in poor condition, and yet we are hell bent in committing to things that are way beyond our capabilities.
The point is not to get depressed and kill ourselves. Rather we should first build ourselves to a credible level of financial status. Only then Muslim Umma will respect us. What is that credible level of financial stability? My guess is around $800 billion a year spending (40 times our current budget). This figure will put us at the bottom of countries in the EU. At that level if someone in Muslim world needs our help, we would be able to part with $5 billions without worrying about our own stability. However at this stage $5 billion is almost 25% of our 2007 budget. That's why we have no role to play in Muslim world or serve Islamic causes.
2. Role of Muslim countries in the world
Role of Muslim world is even more limited in the global sense. Here is why?
Iran, Malaysia both stand at $30 billion a year spending. Indonesia is just a tad bit better. The two giants in the Islamic world Saudi Arabia and Turkey operate with annual spending around $150 billion each. Even these giants are tiny midgets compared to Japan ($1.8 trillion), South Korea, EU ($6 trillion), and US ($2.5 trillion).
This comparison of financial situation clearly shows that as a whole Muslim world is a group of beggars utterly dependent on the financial or military handouts from US and EU.
Pakistan can try hard to be part of a group of beggar countries. We may be able to become "Undhon main kaana Raja" (in the land of blind, one-eyed is the king. But the question is? Will that improve Pakistan or help Pakistanis?
Bottom line is that Pakistanis should wake up to the financial realities of the world. That is if we truly want to "help" our brethren.
Dr. Qazi, United States of America
No animousity with Jews
Liberalism does not only means that you sell off all the issues concerning the your believes in the world.The dignity of a nation is more important then its mere survival.If Isreal is America’s policeman in the Arab world so are the other Muslim countries.The difference is that Isreal has exploited its position and gained from American friendship.On the other hand rulers of Muslim countries have made money for themselves and secured their illegitimate governments. Ofcourse there should not be any harm done to the jews: every human life is important.If Musharaff is such a big fan of the western values and peace then he should make the democractic forces in Pakistan more powerful then his own one man show. Make it a respected state which never sells off its struggle and views for a million dollars. One does not sell of his/her friends if not brothers/sisters for securing oneself.This reminds me of a incident where Mr.Bhutto as the foreign Minister of Pakistan was asked by President Ayub Khan to finish all the ties with China to be close with America and he said “ I don’t know how to do that”.I think the army can only know how to do “Ordering” or “Serving”.
Ali, Pakistan
Lets give peace a chance
There is a lot of high tech industry in Israel, and Israeli and Jewish scientists dot the globe all over. Can the same be said about Islam and Muslims? We are all interested in friendly brotherly relations between the descendants of Ismail and the descendants of Yitzhak.
Ya`akov N. Miles, Canada
Ridiculous
I find it ridiculous that one pakistani from USA, writing under the heading of “A Pakistani Muslim” telling that Musharraf is “diminishing muslim beliefs in Pakistan” and that they were shocked with the “liberty of media”. Then why did that guy to to USA. Can’t he be more satisfied attending a madrassa in the dusty corner of Waziristan. Hypocrites, that’s what they are.
Do you think Pakistan, or for that matter any of the South Asian country is so big and that Israel will be affected so much do to non-recognition that they’ll come and beg you to give them the boon of being recognizied by a country whose 30 percent of land mass is not under its own control? Good joke guys...
Vivek, India
Recognize Israel
I think Pakistan should follow foot steps of progressive Arab countries like Eygpt and Jordan that recognized Israel way back . The people of Pakistan should heed President Mussuraf's advice. This will have an enormous impact on the prestige of Pakistan in the world by joining the ranks of moderate and forward looking countries.
Daoud Mateen, United States of America
DOES ISRAEL CARE
IT MATTERS VERY LITTLE TO ISRAEL WHETHER PAKISTAN RECOGNIZES IT OR NOT. IT IS RECOGNIZED BY ALL THE COUNTRIES THAT PAKISTAN CURRIES FAVOR WITH.
PAKISTHAN PLAYS NO PART IN THE ECONOMY AND POLITICS OF ISRAEL. IT CANNOT INFLUENCE ISRAEL.
PAKISTHAN NEITHER EXPORTS NOR BUYS ANYTHING FROM ISREAL. IT HAS NO CLOUT EVEN AMONG THE ISLAMIC COUNTRIES IN BUSINESS OR POLITICS.
INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT ISRAEL LET PAKISTHAN FOCUS ON IMPROVING ITS IMAGE IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD.
A.V. RAO, United States of America
The sand dune
Like an ostrich we've placed our heads in the sand dune. Is it not time we come out of our shell and embrace the reality that Israel exists in our midst and we say Hi neighbor,we want you to let go your illegal occupation and Pakistan will do her best to bring peace to your region. But what if everybody recognizes and Isreal with US support continues to hold on to land that did not belong to them?
Khalid Rahim, Canada
Recognising Israel?
Commando General is out on tour to be a spokesman for Israel while no one even wants to consider Pakistan as a respectable country. No one wants to talk about Kashmir.,or the coutnry's right to have atomic technology. Same Israel and West were in the forefront in coining the term of Islamic bomb et etc.
Dr.Khan, United States of America
BIG MISTAKE
Recogniseing Israel would be very costy not benefical and Musaraf already sold Kashmir to india. However he doing good things for country but he must respect the general consense peoples of pakistan rather than pro-amercian and jewish lobby and burden of IMF.
Picture is clear as crystel.
Raja Khan, Pakistan
No trust
Actually main thing is trust on Musharaf,
I believe there is a no harm if we recognize Isreal but who believed on Musharafe,
in what bases he said 'recognise' Israel for resolution of Palestine issue,
If we recognize Isreal, Is Isreal withdraw from west Bank , Gaza,and from whole Palestine,
If Musharaf said all this because he got some assurance from Mr Bush so this will also open the dabate
,how many time he lie with his own people with whole world
Kashif Siddiqui, Pakistan
No trust
Actually main thing is trust on Musharaf,
I believe there is a no harm if we recognize Isreal but who believed on Musharafe,
in what bases he said 'recognise' Israel for resolution of Palestine issue,
If we recognize Isreal, Is Isreal withdraw from west Bank , Gaza,and from whole Palestine,
If Musharaf said all this because he got some assurance from Mr Bush so this will also open the dabate
,how many time he lie with his own people with whole world
Kashif Siddiqui, Pakistan
Musharaf is deteriorating image of Islam behind his policies of moderinizing Islam, which is toatl against the concept of Islam. There is only one Islam and no one has right to chage it after what our beloved Prophet(PBUH) has left for us. It is said right away in Quran that zionists are your enemies never accept them. And if Musharaf does so he will be on the line of doing great mistake after mistake. This time Musharaf is the great mean to Zionist this is what he should understand and he shall be fired after the resolution of all there means.
Aamir, Pakistan
The Heart which loves nobody
The Heart which loves nobody
How far can we go to define terrorism?
Whether it is an act of heroism?
Or a devil’s mind that thinks evil
as their way of life of death and destruction
the meaning of JIHAD has been defined
to defend yourself against the aggression
There is no life for the Palestinians
Who are living for so long under occupation?
They see no hope and no future at all
Their life is only devastation
When the one’s life is ruined in such a way
He began to think in state of mind of frustration
He is deeply disturb by the surroundings
His family members who are killed mercilessness
His heart replaces with hate revenge and ammunitions
And the bombing starts as an act of desperation
With every human blood spill in such a way
It is mass killing of a whole civilization
With the death, destruction, and frustration grows
Will there ever be peace? Will there ever be a conclusion
Wasi Siddiqui ( copy right 2007)
wasi siddiqui, Canada
we should
Well i think we should recongniseing Israel but should after the resolution the palestinan issue.
About benifts.
Well we can allot of benifts like financial benifts from US,Like defence Benifts from US,Like defence Benifts from EU, Like we can get allot of sampathies about kashmir issue from US and EU and i have an idea ok here is the deal,Ok Us if we recongnise israel then US should play an important role in the resolution of kashmir in true sence accounding to the thoughts of kashmri people,So this is the deal.
Nouman qureshi, Pakistan
Recognize the birth of a 60 years old man (or get laughed at)
Recognizing Israel is long overdue just like admitting the birth of a man who is now 60 years old. Even when we don't establish embassy in Tel Aviv, we are bound to come across Israeli leadership at the world forums. If we can recognize Bangladesh or shake hands with Indian leaders, then playing deaf and dumb in front of Israeli leaders is simply childish. Just see the picture (in another online Pakistani paper) of Peres, and Abu Mazan during Davos summit. They are laughing and having a good time. So what stops a Pakistani leader from shaking hands with Peres? As they say "Mian Bibi razi, to kia karey ga Qazi". If Palestinian leadership is OK with Israel, Pakistan should not be the odd man out.
Here are quick answers to your questions.
1) Do you agree with the contention that Musharraf is selling some US proposals vis-à-vis Palestine?
Answer: Musharraf cannot sell anything to Palestinians. Abu Mazan is there to accept peace deals. Why else Abu Mazan would get $100 million from Israel. The issue is mutual between Israel and Palestinians.
Think about this folks! Kashmir issue has not stopped Arabs from being friends with India. In fact late Yaser Arafat was much more cozy with Indians than he ever was with Pakistanis.
2) What could be the motive behind Musharraf's call for recognition of Israel?
Nothing complicated here. Musharraf is simply asking to accept the fact that Israel has existed for 60 years. Many Arabs like Egypt, Jordan, and Palestinians accept Israel, so what stops Pakistan from seeing the obvious?
3) What benefits could Pakistan achieve by recognising the Zionist State?
The only benefit at this stage is that Pakistan will be considered a sane member of the global community.
4) Should Musharraf try for peace in Middle East first or peace in Waziristan, and Balochistan?
As a I said, Pakistani role is really limited in the Middle East. Even if Musharraf visits Tel Aviv, what could he possibly do to stop the maddness in Gaza?
Accepting Israel as a country will project Pakistan as reasonable and responsible country. That's all.
Balochistan and Wazirastan problems are important but they have nothing to do with recognition of Israel.
Would you ask whether Pakistan should build a road or recognize Israel? Well! building a road in Pakistan is "LOCAL issue", while recognizing Israel is simply a "non-local" formality.
It is time that us Pakistanis deal with Israel as a country. If we see that Israel is harming Pakistan, then we should raise that issue directly with Israel. "Main na Maanoo" attitude is simply ridiculous.
Dr. Qazi, United States of America
Stirring
Assalam o Alaikum! Yes we can recognise a bigger Syria with all these lands of the present Israel, Labenon, Palestine been united in it as a single, safe and stronger land to all religions and folks. This will end the fight of 1000 years but to be careful as the open market of weapons or money producers of some countries will in that case be in danger and they will certainly not let it be done. This is the only solution and non other.
Presently Israel is an outpost and place of testing weapons in the area how do we accept that?
Shirin, Pakistan
Could agree more with Anwar Mahmood
Usually I don't write comments on these kind of articles but I couldn't agree more with Anwar Mahmood who is from Canada. Every single word he wrote reflects my opinion, it was like reading my heart out. What Musharaf is doing is good for the country(atleast for right now) but bad for muslims and for country too in a long run. He is diminishing muslim beliefs in Pakistan. Recently I went to Pakistan and I was shocked with the liberty of media.I am not talking about the freedom of speech but the vulgarity of it. Please wakeup now and do something otherwise this person will sale the country to his Master and yes I am talking about USA....
A Pakistani Muslim, United States of America
Another U-Turn, Whats Next?
Musharraf has been taking u-turns even on the maters of national consensus and interests. He is been detracting his own statements. As like traditional dictators making brainless decisions without consultation, even his king’s party. Why, It looks he has sole motto of saving him at whatever cost.
Enough is enough at least he should say no to excessive US/Indian demands. In this way he can win some trust before 2007 elections or some respectable exit. Do you think, one can trust him to take this bold step, even though suppose to have bravery of a commando?
Real question is why we get the coward and brainless generals each time and bold enough against their own masses. It’s been killing hundreds of Pakistani in so-called US sponsored war against terrorism of whatever. Real solders being killed, hate rising even for Pakistan's true brave solders. But who cares, Did Musharraf or You do or I?
khurram, Pakistan
Recognizing Israel.
First of all Isreal is a very strong country backed by United States. No country in the world can defeat Israel. Israel just wants to live in peace and harmony with arab neighbors. Israelis are patriotic and they will defend their country as much as Pakistanis and Indians defend their country. So recognizing Israel, if you want to or not, they dont care.
Sunil Sinha, United States of America
The Holy Quran on Jews & their homeland (Israel)
Since all major religions' true messages are basically the same - treat oneself and one another (no matter if of the same faith or ethnicity) and the earth well and with kindness and mercy and forgiveness and moderation, it is very moving to see that there are Israelis (who include Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Druse and more) and Pakastanis who actually will walk the talk and recognise one another as brothers and sisters that they are.
And for those people who use opposition to Zionism (belief that Jewish national homeland should exist and that its rightful place is in the geographic location of the Judean / Israelite kingdoms, or some reasonable portion thereof) as an reason to reject peace or wage war, please "Zionism, the Qur'an, and the Hadith" by Khaleel Mohammed, PhD (who studied Islamic Law in Saudi Arabia), which says many important things, including: "If the idea of Israel (Zion) as a homeland for the Jewish people were to be found only in the Torah, it would have been irrelevant to discuss the Muslim view on that issue. But this Biblical concept is found in the Qur'an to the point where Islam's main document mentions that God favored the Children of Israel above all nations and decreed Israel as an abose for them, granting holy status to that land:
'And Remember when Moses said to his people: O my people! remember the favors of your Lord that he has bestowed upon you, as He has made prophets and kings from among you, and has given to you that which has never been given to anyone amongst the nations. Enter then, my People, the Holy Land, that God has written for you, and turn not back, or you will suffer.'
Qur'an 5: 20-21
Long before the formation of the State of modern Israel in 1948, the Muslim exegetes explained these verses in a manner that would have shaocked their coreligionists today who clamor for the destruction of Israel. To elucidate my point, I have rendered verse 5:21 above in as literal a manner as possible: translating the Arabic KaTaBa as 'written.' This word has definite theological connotations: in Islam, as in Jewish belief, it conveys the idea of decisiveness and finality,....
For most Muslims, the views of famous exegetes are extremely cogent: a Muslim scholar cannot attempt to gain any respect unless s/he is thoroughly familiar with the views of the famous mufassirs (exegetes). I will therefore attempt to present a summary of what the most well known mufassirs have provided as the explanations of Q5:21. Abu Ja'far al Tabari (d. 310/922), Islam's most famous exegete explained Kataba as: 'That which God has firmly inscribed on the Guarded Tablet (al-Lawh al-Mahfuz) that this (land) as an abode and residence for you instead of the tyrants that inhabited it.' It is significant the al-Tabari refers to al-Lawh al-Mahfuz in his explanation, for the term is used in Chapter 85: 21, to refer to a heavenly tablet that is divinely guarded, and something that is inscribed on it therefore must be seen as absolutley inviolable and immutable.
Abu Ali al-Tabarsi (d. 1153), the Shi'ite commentator, repeats al-Tabari's statement without change. Ibn Kathir (d. 1373) explained Kataba in terms that would have pleased the most ardent zionists: 'That which God has written for you,' i.e., That which God has promised to you by the words of your father Israel as the inheritance of those among you who believe.' Muhammad al-Shawkani (d. 1834) interpreted Kataba to mean 'that which God has allotted and predestined for you in His primordial knowledge, deeming it as a place of residence for you.'....
Perhaps as, if not more intriguing, is the interpretation that the exegetes give to 'al-Ard al-Muqadassah' (the Holy Land) in Q5:21. Al-Tabari gave several reports, citing respected authorities, showing that the Holy Land in fact was (1) Sinai and the surrounding area (2) Greater Syria (3) Jericho (4) Damascus, Palestine, and some of Jordan. Al-Shawkani also repeated this in his commentary...."
These are not my words, but those of a Muslim scholar. I say, let us all be brave and true to the best that is within us and within our faiths, and so recognize this goodness within one another - and thrive in peace.
Salam,
mush
Mushaaraf is a thief, dont trust him
Inzy, Pakistan
peace is best
recognizing israel is the right thing to do. we can not win!! you know it and the world know it too!so be it and live in peace with all
SAJJAD RANA, Pakistan
Tough road to stay free
All puppets dance to the tunes of their masters and this thing or repeat is nothing new.
They have got Pakistan right by the balls at its power nerve and that is its military. The patriots have been sold out for some money, and who cares if the whole nation is sold out.
Turkey refused 20 billion dollars offer to let use its Kurdish territories as invasion route of Iraq.This offer could have been increased to 50 billion or may be 100 billions of dollars to make its military and rulers super rich.
But Pakistan rulers and military can do any thing for much less money and green cards for their children and self.
Musharraf is dealing with the people, who will enslave you if you do not do things after you surrender your confidence to them.
My perrsonal experience is an example here even after my over 40 years stay in the west.
Only 2-3 years ago i managed to do some world class knowledge and publications in gas engineering in leading spots of north America. I was paid as much as fedral ministers here.But, once you show your independence, you loose it all. I now get rare contracts and even in my business ventures with some one here, i had no say of my own. I had to loose it all to stay free and independent. I chose freedom and i am more happy with much less money than 2-3 years ago.
The rulers or the military won't suffer as they will get enough reward for driving wedge within Islamic world. Do you think that the people, who would swallow poison before swallowing names like Muhammad or Mahmood will be your real benefactors. Just do things to a certain threshold that keeps you safe.
We can expect any thing from Musharraf or BB.If BB does'nt give a statement to this effect, she is also party to the effect. At least Mr NS has spoken out in people's interests and wishes along with other six leaders.
It is all part of a master plan to drive a wedge within Islamic world and contain Iran. Since Pakistan does not have much of real natural resources of energy like Iran, we can at least stay neutral.
Turkey did not sell itself for 20 billion dollars or more and declined invasion route to Iraq through Turkish Kurdish territories. This will be the key reason for America's failure there.
We do not want to be enemy of any one including Israel, but we do not want to bleed our Islamic world for any body. Look at Egypt after selling itself. They are sending men and equipment to already cornered Hamas so that they can appease their masters and collect some money for the foreign bank accounts of the Egyptian military and the rulers.The conscience of killing fellow muslims Hamas is dead within the sold souls.
On this whole issue, you will be wise if you can wait like the majority of the Islamic world until the key thorny issues are resolved.
Majority Islamic world is our reason to be living and we cannot stab fellow muslims in the back.That is why hardly any nation trusts us any more. Even the people of Pakistan on my every visit there tell me their un-happiness over the jobs like university VC and governers of province taken up by army generals.With no biast against any one, i only listen to people there and Pakistani people here. I listen to muslim people here and they know how our rulers are selling their patriotic countrymen for few hundred dollars a piece.
Here are my answers to your questions as such:
Do you agree with the contention that Musharraf is selling some US proposals vis-à-vis Palestine?
Answer:Like Egypt, Pakistan will wash its hands off Palestine.
We will be complete, resolute and thorough slaves of US and Israel.A bold stand by Musharraf MAY bring him the same fate as of Bhutto or general Zia. The choice will be his to do balanced walk if they will allow him to do.The fault lines may lie in the unfortunate,yet money wise lucky circumstances for few or more after 9/11.
2) What could be the motive behind Musharraf`s call for recognition of Israel?
Answer: As i have mentioned, sleeping with tiger and the master monkey riding the tiger's back is not an easy thing. The nation and its rulers and the military have been sucked enough to make exit a difficult thing.A very bold Musharraf could face Bhutto or Zia type drop or down fall if not death.The nation can put tremendous uproar to save him and the country and force a safe middle course.
3) What benefits could Pakistan achieve by recognising the Zionist State?
Answer:There will be financial rewards for the time being like every slave is supposed to have at the expense of stabbing his own brother in the back.
4) Should Musharraf try for peace in Middle East first or peace in Waziristan, and Balochistan?
Answer:Peace at home comes first. No body listens to a quarreling family.No body has trust in a family that is fighting within. If we cannot make peace between ourselves, we are useless to others.Only the abusers, by throwing few coins at, will exploit MORE and further bleed the feuding family.
Anwar Mahmood, Canada
REcognisisng Israel,Is it a priority or necessity.
Ever since Pakistan has gotten in the clutches of Army its priority have gotten messed up.The first priority is to correct corruption,then to correct law and order situation ,implementing merit.
Recognition Israel is of no benefit to the country nor nation.Yes It will please USA because USA is controlled by Isralei Lobby.Nothing gets done in USA if it is not approved by Israelis.All the machoism of US to world becomes cowardice when it comes to dealing with Israeli lobby.SO Musharraf knows well that to please USA at the cost of nation,justice,truth etcetc is for his survival.He is doing that and like many actions of his,and army this will bring to benefit to the nation.
Once the nation will get over corruption,law and order situation gets better and merit implemented in every walk of life all the countries will treat Pakistan as respect like they do to India,because situation there is not as worse as in Pakistan.
Dr.Khan, United States of America
in musharaf last seven years,what i found he is a good business man then army cheif or president and he make good deals,he did very fruit full deal with nawaz sharif 2 send him away from the country for 10 years,then with ppp release asif sazari,and also with usa,killed his innocent people for good money,and now he is in dealing with zoinest 2 recoginze them ,god knows for how much,if he stay long one day pakistan will be on sale
tahir saeed, Pakistan
Neither Israel nor reference to Quranic Bani Israel Match
Israel was Quran Reference.Jews had vanished even at the time of Jesus. Jews
Numbering 10 million or more with Saudis are newly born Babies in thousands
Of years.So is Pervez Musharaff with Pakistan Jewish helper Team fighting
on their behalf for their and own Recogniztion under pressure. If Quranic Bani Israel has become alive so is the Qatal Gaatrat Theft Stealing Qureish Abdullah Sabah Party of Jews and Islamic Prophecy. If prophecy has become live –Zionist claim own Prophecy. Musharaff as self promoter become Zionist Champ working with Saudi King and Sheiks.. Muslims Shia Sunni Ayatollah Maulvis become Obsolete requiring Pakistan made Women Rights legislation of Pervez Musharaff as need of the hour as alternative to Quran and Islamic Prophecy UMMA .Pervez Team and Sheiks Israel US EU become Champion Of Legislated Boycott of Quran and UMMA in Kangaroo Hop (without any basis)to retain Islamic Properties to their liking with own glorification at gun (presumed)
due to soldiers around as if Islam is under occupation and partitioned.none Custom made internet control which few Muslim read reflect.
b m z , India
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