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Civil & Military in Pakistan

31 July, 2007

By Col. Riaz Jafri (Retd)


Introduction:

An email on the internet by the caption, *"Every Country has Army, Pakistan Army has a country"*  has been going the rounds for the last many years much to the delight of  the likes of Farahat ullah Babar,  Ansar Abbasi and Dr. Ayasha Siddiqui, who let go of no opportunity to malign the armed forces! It surfaces every now and then in a planned manner to strike when the anvil is hot, that is; whenever the government is facing a situation. I have received it again for the third time now during the last two years. It contains a comprehensive list of the army officers in civil appointments in the country. On the face of it the list looks huge and on its first reading gives the impression to the uninformed gullible that the entire administration of the country is being run by the military officers. What it does not say cleverly is that it is a consolidated list of all such military personnel who have held such appointments over a period of last two decades or more and includes the names of even those who have retired since long from their civil positions or have even left for their eternal heavenly abode. But the list keeps on making the rounds, of course not without the obvious purpose of maligning the army in its own country, thus doing the job of the enemy strategists for free (but who knows, there might be a price?) in eroding the very unity and the foundations of Pakistan.

Civil & Military Interdependence

Civil Services and the Military are the two most important wheels without which no country can run. There are two types of military officers who find their way to the civil appointments – The Serving Officers and the Retired Officers. Similarly, there are a few departments in the government which are defence oriented in nature and the defence personnel, serving or retired, are considered better suited for some of the specific jobs in them. It is just like many civilians serving in the GHQ, AHQ, NHQ, various Formations/Stations and Log Areas Headquarters, All Cantonment Boards and the Military Estates Offices, hundreds of Army Rations and Ordnance Depots spread all over the country, and the largest number of them employed by the Pakistan Ordnance Factories at Wah, Garwal and Sanjwal, the Aeronautical Complex, Kamara, the Heavy Rebuild Tank and Gun Factories, Taxilla, the Naval Dockyards, numerous PAF Air Bases, various many Technical Inspectorates like Inspectorate of Electronics & Instruments, Inspectorate of Vehicles and Engineering Equipment, Chief Inspectorate of Armaments, Inspectorate of Optics etc. etc. many Military Hospitals and many other purely military organisations and set ups all over the country. Each and every one of them can be very easily replaced by a serving of retired military person. Not only that, all these civilians employed by the thousands in these military establishments are categorised as “Civilians Paid out of Defence Budget” and are entitled exactly to all those facilities as given to the army personnel in these establishments. As a matter of fact and on the lighter side, there is a saying going rounds in all such military head quarters that it is the civilians who are the permanent staff there as the military officers keep coming and going. And if it a surprise let it be that way.  No military officer in the GHQ can punish any civilian employ – even his office peon. The matter is to be reported to the CAO (Civilian Administrative Officer), who is only competent to take any action against them. And if it could offer some solace to Messrs Farhat Ullah Babar and Ansar Abbasi to know that a very large number – indeed a very large number- of civilians is employed by the Fauji Foundation, AWT, Shaheen Foundation and Bahria Foundation, the Frontier Works Organisation, the Special Communications Organisation, the Civil Works Organisation and the NLC in their many and multi million rupee projects and enterprises. Some of the civilians in these organisations are employed at much higher pay and perks than what most of the serving and retired officers and men get there.  If we compare the number of such civilians employed in the defence organisations vis-a-vis  the number of the army personnel in the civil services, I bet the ratio will be at least 500 to 1 in favour of the civilians.

Retired Military Officers:  They are mostly taken on contract basis for a fixed period of normally three years. The contract, like any other contract, could be extended for another term of similar or lesser period. The raison d’etre behind it being that most army officers retire as Majors and Lieutenant Colonels at a young age of mid and late forties after having put in a very demanding service of 23 to 25 years.. At this age they are mentally alert and physically fit, possess the necessary experience of command, man management and administration, are disciplined, dutiful, responsible, trained to obey orders and accomplish a given task in the given time. In other words they are able, capable, efficient and proficient. The elder lot of the retired officers who fall in the category of Brigadiers and Generals are much more experienced and possess a good insight of the socio-economic and geo-political affairs of the country. Having served in various assignments within Pakistan and at times abroad, undergone courses of higher studies in the Staff Colleges and National Defence University (both local and foreign) are considered more suited for higher responsibilities – gubernatorial, and  diplomatic assignments as ambassadors and delegates to foreign missions etc. Most countries designate retired Generals as their ambassadors abroad. 

 

Serving Military Officers:.  They are absorbed in the civil services under a constitutional quota. They are either seconded to the civil services where they revert to the military after completing the stint or find their entry into it permanently after having been selected by the Public Service Commission of Pakistan. Lieutenants Iskandar Mirza and A S B Shah (later Major General Iskandar Mirza and Lt Colonel A S B Shah) became ICS (Indian Civil Services) officers in their very early military carrier in pre-partitioned India.  There were many more like them. Incidentally, in those days no one in the civil service could be given a rank more than that of a Lieutenant Colonel, including the honorary rank bestowed upon the Rajas, Maharajas and Nawabs. It was only after the partition and that too in Pakistan only that higher military ranks were awarded to princely states rulers and Lt Col. Iskandar Mirza was made an honorary Major General who as a Defence Secretary took ex-officio precedence over the Army Chief- a General. Every country allocates certain percentage of the civil appointments for the veterans, the retired and the serving personnel of the armed forces. Ever since the inception of Pakistan and as a practice carried forward from the days of the pre-partitioned India, an 8 percent quota of the civil services was reserved for the retired and serving officers of the armed forces. Liaqat Ali Khan gave this practice the constitutional cover in 1951. Later ZAB increased this quota from 8 percent to10 percent. I agree, that they are a little too many to be in the civil jobs, but the big question is why are they there?  Has each one of them not delivered and contributed in bringing some semblance of efficiency and progress in the department entrusted to him?  If they could improve the working in it, does it not show that theretofore there were not very competent people in those departments?  Take the case of Punjab University, there used to be PERPETUAL strikes in it (thanks to JI). Ever since the induction of a General there almost 6 to 7 years ago, there has been none and the PU is being quoted a role model of a university for others to follow.  Why did the civil govts. of BB and NS have one after the other Lt Gens as Chairmen WAPDA and AVMs to head the Civil Aviation?  Why did the British have FM Wavell and  the First Sea Lord of the Admiralty Mount Batten as the Viceroys of India at its most crucial period of the British history in India at the time of its Independence?  Military 'bureaucrats' have their own plus points or else more than 60 percent of the Fortune 500 top most corporations in the world would not have been headed by them.

 

Talking of civil bureaucracy in Pakistan, happily though not all but many of them leave much to be desired. I have yet to see them coming to office on time, leave aside the amount of the corruption they indulge into. I was aghast to see in the 1980s seven trucks hauling the household belongings of a Commissioner transferred from ----- to Islamabad. One truck was carrying the peacocks, deer siblings and other fauna.  A young civil doctor friend told me how his district medical staff used to collectively send a truck load of mangoes and about a dozen deer to the Director Health Services Lahore for his annual feast that he used to host for the government officials and their friends.  No Pasban is sent to the Judiciary –not because they are not trained for it.  Law is a compulsory subject for all officers to study and qualify in various examinations - and one can see the pathetic state of affairs of our civil courts without them. The rampant corruption there is cited the world over by the Transparency International. Can any one get a piece of land registered in his/her name without illegal gratification ? Well nigh, impossible! If you ask me honestly, it is due to these Pasbans, that the Pakistan government machinery keeps ticking. They act as trouble shooters and put thing right where wrong. Otherwise, it would have come to a halt long ago.

Reader Comments:

Meaningless argument

Pakistan is not the only country running the show. But, nowhere in the world, army has this type of stranglehold on civil administration. There are retired army personnel everywhere, but they are civilian once their tenure is over. Particularly, Britain, India and pakistan has army recruitment purely on voluntary basis, unlike USA or Russia where people are drafted for national services. Even in those countries, army personnel retired from active services do not get any special treatment either from Govt. or from general public.

Any comment?

P.K.Shome, Hungary - 31 July, 2007

Stop crying

chor ko banda chor nahi kahay ga to orr kyaa kahay colonel sahab. If u dont want ppl maligning army than stop raping our constitution and go back to barracks or borders and do th job that we pay u 2 do

Bilal Khan, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

The Colonel..

I sincerely advise the old Colonel to call it a day now. His hysterical institutional loyalty to the Army notwithstanding, the Army is thoroughly discredited in the eyes of the people. For the first time in history, the crimes of Pakistan Army are being openly discussed and debated. The "bloody civilians" are no longer prepared to be treated as the slaves of a corrupt, dictatorial department of the government.

Mumammed Islam, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

Civil & Military

A very beautiful picture of affairs about Civilians in Pakistan and what army is doing, the way writer has elaborated the entire setup is worthy of praise. I myself always bellieve that there is lot of propaganda against the armed forces who retired young and are working in posts where they are more suited. They are giving a very good return from their duties after serving the forces where they learned great discipline, time keeping and hardwork. They are paying back more than any other civilian officer who never went to armed forces. There is more corruption in civil society than Army and it has been seen over the years. Military Officer can do lot better jobs than those who were never taught discipline and any false propaganda against military is baseless. Pakistan is doing fine with retired army officer and let it be that way for ever.

Mohammad, United Arab Emirates - 01 August, 2007

Eternally Grateful

If we were to believe even a little of what the unbiased good Colonel has written we should be eternally grateful to our Army who has looked after our country so well that it is in the situation it is now.

The job the armed forces are trained to do and for whic we pay them is to defend our borders. It is not to run our factories, our airlines, our power companies and certainly not to run our judiciary. The Army is a uniformed subordinate service kept for a specific role to which it should confine itself.

As from any walk of life and from any profession, retired military personnel should be allowed to compete for civilian jobs on merit - the military rank of the person - whether General or Havildar should not be taken into account, their personal qualities and competence should be the criterion. The cosy jobs for the boys in Fauji Foundation and the like is an anachronism that must come to an end in a democracy.

Not all army people are corrupt or incompetent but these attributes are present in some amongst them in a grander scale, one can just mention two NWFP generals who were brothers and the comissioners trucks pale in comparison to the heroics of these two.

The difficulty is not with individual appointments and corruption but with the creation of a special "elite" caste/cadre that eats into the rights of other citizens who the good colonel considers inferior. Every word of his article oozes disdain and contemt for the lower caste civlian.

Dr Imran Ahmed MRCP, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

Civil & Military

Every Country has Army, Pakistan Army has a country"

Civil & Military in Pakistan Part 1
It is an interesting subject which is addressed with lame excuses and self created transparency. It is always significant to know who is saying in the light of his/her previous doctrines. Author of the column is an active member of Fauji Political Party and promoter of Musharraf’s doctrine. A few weeks back he indirectly supported Salman Rushdie by keeping gun on the shoulders of others.
His criticism on Farahat ullah Babar and Dr. Ayasha Siddiqua, is not relevant now since Benazir has bowed her head in front of dictator and pledged to protect policies of fascism. On other hand Ansar Abbasi is the only reporter in Jang-Group which left some room to click Jang-Group papers, otherwise usually policy decision are leaked to some known columnists who make the minds of peoples, and then dictator implement those thoughts. If you want to observe watch editorials and permanent column writers of the above group, wait three to four days, dictator will be there to implement new policy.

At other place author says “entire administration of the country is being run by the military officers” is speculation. It looks like a joke of this century or a lie. First of all if any Army officer retires at any early age it is not a fault of Pakistan. Army is an organized institution; they already provide pensions, medical facilities, quota in recruitment of descendents, educational facilities and quota in civil services. The biggest advantage is Askari, Fazaya and Naval housings, which those sell in market in crores. So what services they provide to Military, they receive ten times more benefits. FF, AWT, and other organizations run by Military provide them jobs too.

Now further states that Army officers are appointed on civilian post, but described civilian staff is employed in Fauji organizations too. If you may note wording of the sentence, it clearly reflects how discriminative thoughts are being presented. He is mixing apples with potatoes(civilian staff with Military Officers). First we will let you clear that employment for any Pakistani national never disturbed any body, we live in a family system, so provision of jobs is a good thing for the betterment of society. In the same scenario there are hundred thousand non-officers Fauji who are working in civilian areas. As an example if you look at only urban areas, each elite has employed two to three security guards, only one security company operated by retired Major, Ikram Sehgal employee 20,000 ex-Faujis, a state with in state, all armed and bullet proof vehicles.

Now we will discuss main issue of employment of retired and active Army Officers on civilian posts. List of Army officers on civilian posts is more then 4000, all are employed on sensitive and establishment posts. A retired Col. and Brig. Is equal to Grade 19 and 20 respectively, but those are appointed on grade 22 and other higher management pay scales. Basic qualification of any Army officer is F.A, a forced degree is being provided to them to call themselves as graduate. All other internal war courses have been forced equal to M.A. The value of those courses is not more then Railway Walton Training courses and departmental employees are teachers. It is a fraud on the gun point. Mostly appointments on civilian posts require at least PhD in the subject. Like trade unions of sugar mill, Military officers’ work and co-ordinate with each other, not in the interest of the country but for the sake of control over policies. Civilians who are not PhD, but it took years to reach on any director level post. We have long experience of directly dealing with serving and retired Military officers on civilian posts. 1st thing is very clear that majority is non-intelligent creed, whimsical, incredulous, like T.C. every time, and sycophant in front of superiors. In Zia era every one pose Taliban, now every body looks like guardian of brothels. It is very easy to study psychology of Military officers on civilian posts and make them fool. Present anarchy in Pakistan is due to Military establishment working on civilian institutions. We are not spokesman of civilian bureaucracy; it is their weakness to teach directions for the sake of saving their services.


Earthman, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

Civil & Military

Civil & Military in Pakistan Part 2

There are many other interesting points but we will talk about the sentence of the author “I have yet to see them coming to office on time, leave aside the amount of the corruption they indulge into”, according to our experience they come to office on departmental cars, driver immediately leaves to home for Begum Sahab services, for pick and drop of children an other car is sent, for official tasks another car is required. Other retirees who are unfortunate to grab any post also ask for cars. We were laughing when dictator indicted Chief Justice in misuse of cars. Last year we wrote a letter and pointed out how daring Military officers on civilian posts are misusing the vehicles, but a very high level Fauji personality requested me to stop. There is no doubt most corrupt mafia in misuse of vehicles is Military Officers.
This is not corruption that a grade 22 officer’s hold posts of President of Pakistan? What will you say to extra judicial measures? State terrorism, kidnapping, imprisonment and torture by Military intelligence agencies? Those have ruined the civilization, human rights and constitution of the Pakistan. Now come to Para- Military forces like Rangers and FC those have broken records of brutalities; there is a long list of target killings and state terrorism. It is not our goal to target individual except some prominent cases.

Author further wrote “Can any one get a piece of land registered in his/her name without illegal gratification?”, answer of the question is very simple, because author belong to Islamabad area, so we will reply examples which could be easily accessible to author. Khanpur oranges red blood are very famous, who is the owner of those farms on other side of Margalla hills, nurseries in Rawal Dam area, poultry forms in Wah area, F and G series Islamabad plazas (we don’t know present owners but initially Ayub and Yahya allotted to Military officers), leave other examples Gen: Zarar Zameen, Gen Hussain Mehdi largest land grabber of international fame. Majority of lands in cantonments, defense housings, Askari, Fizaya and Bahria are result of corruption on gunpoint. Large firing ranges converted in housing and race course for polo, how many peoples knows ABC of the golf in the country.

Author further writes “Civil Services and the Military are the two most important wheels without which no country can run”. This definition is based on 19th century political thoughts. In kingdoms and authoritarian regime this thought could be correct, but in civilized world Government is based on constitution and statute, and in any developed country car driver is always elected representative of the public, all other do function under civilian non-uniformed and elected representative, any country could be a police state but ruled under laws. Civilized governments are like front wheel drive car, which grip the tie rod with the help of Justice and Law, other wheels are parliament and administration, in 21st century satellite age has provided power to media to act as an fourth wheel. Military is a spare wheel (stepney with small wheel), which is usually required in case of emergency. Unfortunately country is running on spare wheel, since childhood we were brain washed for Kashmir and Socialism, some time anti-Communism and blessings of neo-imperialism, then whole the nation was pushed to wage Jihad, now neo-con theories and evangelical doctrines with the mixture of pornography are being floated. Spare wheel is running the vehicle without any wisdom, but surely with the sycophant approach towards super power, which is taking care of safety, security, and financial needs of the spare wheel. Other wheels have been punctured or removed with gun instead utilization of jack or spanner as a normal way.
We have no history to frame on wall which Military has created, Kacha Qila to Baluchistan, East Pakistan to Kashmir what bravery our military has done. Finally using force against civilians on the name of war on terror is for the sake of financial benefits and reflects mean mentality and poor military education. It is sure if transparent elections are ever conducted in Pakistan and a constitutional Government is formed, heap of fools are sent back in barracks, all hot issues will be solved without using any bullet. But condition is no deal and all Generals come out of Government, let run the government with civilian authorities.


Earthman, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

Civi & Military

Civil & Military in Pakistan Part 3

Last important issue raised is “Why are they there? Has each one of them not delivered and contributed in bringing some semblance of efficiency and progress in the department entrusted to him?” Since appointment of retired ISI Generals on all important universities and on diplomatic posts has improved security of walls and buildings but spirit of education has been disappeared. Our friends told many times funny stories teaching in Universities, such as measurement of height of walls, distance of buildings from entrances, spying and unnecessary impressing teachers in haunting style. Elimination of JI is not a new technique, Zia created MQM to eliminate JI from Karachi and many other political examples are there. The only reason which present Generals have the advantage, ISI and MI, which usually kidnap families or disappearance of any person which is not traceable is believed in ISI custody, it is funny that some missing persons reported that those were kept in Military workshops. More over dead bodies of Muddersah Hafsa students were brought to Fauji Foundation Rawalpindi to reduce the number of dead and hide children and women deaths. This is the reason we always say that Army Political Party is a trade union of blinds, dumb and deaf, mentally slave and deprived of any wisdom.
The result of deploying Military ambassador at US, our foreign policy has failed and regular charity is being bonded with blood of civilians, ultimately blood of our Jawans.

We strongly believe since all present active or retired Military officers are working on civilian post, neither democracy can flourish in this country nor hypocrisy will ever leave us in any way. Politicians are equally responsible for hypocrisy; those must stand shoulder to shoulder with one voice, moratorium on appointments, suspension of Military officers from administrative post for the period of elections, removal of Military Governors, Musharraf to remove uniform at least three months prior to elections, no presidential ordnance, no deal and no political involvement of Military in elections. Let decide nation independently and with liberty, what they want, only last time in history of Pakistan. Finally accept what ever result will come out. Not like East Pakistan results.
Remember Army is not a sacred cow any more, their activities are suspicious and it has lost trust.

Earthman - Pakistan


Earthman, Pakistan - 01 August, 2007

'Marshall'-Plan for Pakistan

Violence begets violence. "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword".Few political scientists have fully identified the inherent risks of direct US action in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan . Not only will this generate a tsunami of anti-Americanism, it will also push the miscreants to the urban areas of Pakistan destabilizing the country. Al-Qaeda will thrive in chaos and threaten the government and the people of Pakistan .

The push theory (pushing miscreants out of one area) does not work. When the Police raids a street gang on a street, they simply move over to the next street. The solution is a comprehensive plan to interdict drugs and create alternative employment for the youth. Similarly fighting terror is a two pronged strategy. An unstable Pakistan is bad for the entire planet. The solution is a massive "Marshall Plan" for Pakistan , which creates incentives for the people to earn a proper living. To start with, the US should abolish the quotas and subsidies on textiles. This will enhance Pakistani exports and provide jobs to the youth.

Action in Afghanistan pushed many people into the tribal areas of Pakistan. Pushing them out of FATA will push them deep into Pakistan. When an anti-Pakistan government was installed in Kabul, surely Pakistanis were not happy. The geo-strategic interests of Pakistan have to be taken into account. Neither the government, nor the people of Pakistan have signed up for indentured servitude to carry on the follies of a broken foreign policy that supports an incompetent and corrupt non-representative non-Pushton, minority “government” (actually institutionalized narco-warlordism) in Kabul. The NATO troops are teething on annihilation by the anti-occupation insurgent (wrongly labeled as "Taliban"). All of Afghanistan is in revolt against the "occupiers". All this has created immense problems for Pakistan , and Pakistanis are not too happy fighting Pakistanis. Neither Musharraf nor anyone else supports Pakistanis fighting Pakistanis. The Tribal areas are "tribal". They joined Pakistan under treaty obligations that allowed them total autonomy, which was the deal for joining the Federation. They have helped Pakistan for the past 60 years. The articles of the confederation of the constitution of Pakistan cannot be changed because of failed US policies in Afghanistan . NATO and America needs to build peace by wining the hearts and minds of Afghans not by cluster bombs and missiles.

Already all the roads to Kabul are in Talib control. America made a critical mistake in imposing a non-Pashtun Northern Alliance anti-Pakistan Karzai government in Kabul. Pakistan and Pashtuns will never tolerate a Northern Alliance government in Kabul. The worst thing America can do right now, is to invade the FATA areas. This will unite the Talibs as never before, and the fall of Kabul will be expedited.

American policy makers are blind to all this. Just like they never found WMDs in Iraq , they will never find OBL in Pakistan. Pakistani cooperation is crucial in this part of the world. They are destabilizing a country of 150 million people which will have long term consequences for India, China , the Central Asian republics and Iran. If attempts to continue the destabilization Pakistan will join Iran and create a nexus with China or even Russia.

We need to develop a "Pull theory" which would pull the insurgents into more productive endeavors like employment and economic prosperity.


Shokat Saleem, Georgia - 02 August, 2007

Let retired army Generals earn a halal living for a change.

Imagine for a minute you are a MA,or MSc or Ph.D and teaching is your profession.You apply and get selected in a Cadet college.There you see the principal is Matric pass,retired Air Commodore.What will you think?You will only think this is injustice,this is an assault on merit and there will come in you hopelessness.
Imagine you are a Ph.D in mettalurgy ,a scientist employed in Steel mill the chairman of which is some retired Lt.General whose has no relevant education,no training,no experience.His only qualification is that he tries to look boss.WHat will you think.?Same as before.WHole Pakistani nation thinks the same.Is it not time that these retired Army Generals leave the civilian life and learn from Hindu Generals try to earn a Halal Living for a change i.e.live on pension.

Dr.Khan, United Kingdom - 02 August, 2007

Civil & Military

Earthman – Who?

Despite obvious lack of moral courage of the ‘learned’ Earthman to come out openly instead of hiding behind a nom de plume, I went through the rejoinder – if I may call it one. Poor English apart, the substance too was pathetic, confounded, unsubstantiated and irrelevant devolving around verbosity. Hardly behoving the pen of a self proclaimed genius who found the military officers as, “We have long experience of directly dealing with serving and retired Military officers on civilian posts. 1st thing is very clear that majority is non-intelligent creed, whimsical, incredulous, like T.C. every time, and sycophant in front of superiors”, which speaks volumes about the traits of the writer himself rather than the objects of his ridicule. By the way, who is this ‘we’ that he has used at more than a place in his verbiage. Is ‘we’ a person or an organisation? Who is we’s paymaster and for how much do ‘ we’ sell their so called intellect?

I consider it below me to engage myself in preferring any rebuttal to the ridiculous incognito rhetoric. It is not worth it.

Col.Jafri (Retd)



Col. Riaz Jafri (Retd), Pakistan - 02 August, 2007

Even Halal Pension stolen with Missing Pension

I did work in Dept of Engineering and even metallurgy for 30 Yrs until I was ready to venture out in Business.Suddenly all My Halal Pension Cash Business home were stolen
In North America called Democracy.

I decided to take a licence for security and reported for work in a multi billion dollar project with 22 colleagues. And there were other 20 under supervision of a boss who introduced himself as ex boss of UN security in New York.As project got completed from my company of 22 I was only one left and was offered $35000 p.a. job which I
Declined to return back to Design Eng.That was 1990.Suddenly some one stole even that
Pension benefit and forced a teeage daughter to quit university to earn a living.I got a halal pension of $1100 for a short period 2 yrs ago . Amid none stop telephone call past 15 years My 40 years of work as engineer or whatever other current Halal pension has been reduced to total $500 /m.With multi million asset name ID stolen in G8 Democracy.With burden of proof remaining on above democracy and their dept to come out clean to explain what they do in own democracy with claim of a Trillion dollar from Iraqis Afghan. and Pakistan.Normally Security staff do not have engineering PhD degree.Military have engineers recuited.Pakistan had started with 2 universities
In 1947 while India had many dozen as a starter.Under Military Rule Pakistan and India
Seem close enough. Democracy and security of North American look greener Grass ? Imagine burden on
the little Girl whose properties they want to steal!


Zakaria _B _enjuman, Canada - 03 August, 2007

Civil & Military

Civil & Military
It is our good luck that a high ranking Brahman is addressing a poor bloody civilian. It also wondered that not a single alive or dead Military officer came forward to help poor col. and duty of rejoinder was finally performed by Sahab Bahadur him self.
It looks that no standard objection was raised in rejoinder. This is our success that criticism on article let draw actual mentality out of bill, it is proved that Military officers are usually non-intelligent creed, whimsical, and incredulous. If not read your rejoinder again and again. It is pity that lot of verse-mongers is working on high posts but dear col. is still out of job. It will not out of place to mention that no body can buy Earthman.
It is advised that if any body want to compare civil and military in recent days, he/she must do good home work with attractive characteristics of Military working on civilian posts. It is already said that Army is not a holy cow any more by killing thousand of civilians. It is state terrorism, no civilized nation adopt such policy to kill own citizens for the sake of economical benefits.
More over we don’t know the military standards, Commander of Army dog centre or mule regiment are also col. and Brigs, infantry and pilots of choppers have same grading, there must be some difference in ranks, so at the appointment on civilian posts, their previous qualifications may be considered. We believe that while posting at ISI, there will be some extra ordinary qualified col. and Brigs, who are later appointed on Universities.
Earthman.


internationalprofessor, Pakistan - 03 August, 2007

Nom de plume evil spread

Islam:"stop evil by hand writing or prayer or Allah 's ink could finish from ocean in writing nothing "but poorer educated living at the mercy of Democracy the intellectuals are giggling in time wasting pursuit without understanding life purpose or promoting live case exploring live question live confrontation by expanding"

Col Riaz Jafri(Rtd) is right Despite obvious lack of moral courage of the ‘learned’ participants who usually fail to come out openly.Istead they hiding behind a nom de plume like hit and run drivers while squandering in time wasting pursuit.I am a girl perhaps more rich than internet writing MA PHDs intellectuals.I do not have their qualification but being a Muslima
At 30 I own asset worth above Rs 15,000,000 with at one time rental income Rs 2,500,000/yr and salary about RS 1,500,000/yr .They are going to be stolen within next few days in North America like my Dad's.Nom de Plumes don't you have even moral courage to ask How do they are doing it to us instead of squandering your time in giggling? This is Bush Blair Brown Harper globalization –spread of evil! (ongoing for decades)


beZee, United Arab Emirates - 03 August, 2007

Col Sahib,Find out the mistakes that have caused U turn in peoples emotions towards Military.

May be Col.sahab should pause and think why in civil such a U turn in emotions towards military.May be there is a need for a think tank to be made with retired military officers and civilians to find mistakes,injustices done to people so the solutions can be sought then presented to the Criminal in chief or coward in chief what ever you call for rectification.Yes interestingly I find it strange and amazing that our president Pushy Mushy has never to say any thing about the problems facing nation or country e.g.decline in Law and order,in health and education.Poor hygiene conditions,joblessness,no merit.He always has enough to say about "Extremism is the biggest danger to our nation"May be he is getting his speaches written in US embassy.Not surprising it has happened in other countries.List is very long to write here.Previously He was so afraid that he used to remind himself out loud "I am not afraid of death to overcome the fear".But then probabaly he was reminded by Americans that look all you have to do is follow our directives like a God's commandment and your life will remain in uniform.Col Sahib Start the work.Military's reputation is on down spiral and only effective analaysis and measures will help it stop from further erosion.Rest is wishful thinking.

MK, United Kingdom - 03 August, 2007

No civil-military divide in Pakistan.

IT IS THE CIVIL AND MILITARY DIVIDE THAT HAS TO BE AVOIDED AS IT CAN DESTROY ANY NATION.

TO SEE SOME PRIVILEGED PEOPLE IN SOCIETY CAN BE LIVABLE SITUATION LIKE THE JEWS IN AMERICA AND CANADA,WHO CONTROL ALL INDUSTRUY AND BUSINESSES HERE.

THE KEY THING IS IF THEY CAN PERFORM.ARE THOSE BUSINESSES PROFITABLE AND DO THEY CREATE ENOUGH JOBS FOR ALL SEGMENTS OF SOCIETY.

IN MOST OF THE WORLD,CRITICIZING THE LIFE LINE OF ARMED FORCES AND POLICE IN PRESS IS RUBBED AWAUY AS TRASH AND SO IS THE UN-NECESSAR PROMOTION OF THE ARMED FORCES AND POLICE WHO ARE THERE TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY AND THE LAW RESPECTIVELY.

YOU PICK UP A GUN AGAINST POLICE OR MILITARY MAN HERE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH RIGHT YOU ARE,CAN BRING DEATH WITHOUT DELAY.

IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE THAT PAK'S SITUATION TODAY CANNOT BE CONTROLLED BY POLICE DUE TO COMPELLING CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH ARE GOING TO CHANGE LIKE THEY CHANGED IMMEDIATELY AFTER AFGHAN WAR WAS OVER AND USED UP FIGHTING PEOPLE WERE NOT REHABILITATED LIKE THEY WERE AFTER WORLD WAR TWO OR VIETNAM WAR OR ANY WAR.AFTER 9/11,THE NEED TO PROP UP HELP FOR PAKS ROSE AGAIN.PAKS DID MORE SACRIFICES IN MILITARY AND CIVILIAN LIVES MORE THAN AMERICANS OR NATO DID IN AFGHANISTAN TO CONTAIN SOME THING WHICH HAS NOW BECOME MUCH COMPLICATED AND CONFUSED.

PAK MILITARY CANNOT GO THAT FAR THAT THE NW OF THE COUNTRY COMES UNDER BARGE OF AIR BOMBARDMENT FROM US-NATO AND ARTILLERY BOMBARDMENT OF PAK ARMY.THAT IS A CLEAR RECIPE OF DESTABILIZING, BREAK UP AND END OF OUR COUNTRY AND THE REGION AND EVEN FALL OF AMERICA AND THE WEST.

SO, THINGS ARE GOING TO CHANGE VERY DRASTICALLY SOON AS DEBATES IN AMERICA AND ALARMS IN PAK PRESS ARE ALREADY FLASHING THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME.

WE DO NOT HAVE TO TALK CIVIL MILITARY DIVIDE. THESE ARE CHANGING ROLLS OF MILITARY. IF ANY BODY CAN CREATE PROFITABLE BUSINESSES AND FACTORIES AND CAN CREATE DECENT JOBS, HE IS DOING SERVICE TO THE COUNTRY. IT CAN BE CIVILIANS OR MILITARY AND WE DO NOT TALK OF THE PROGRESSIVE THINGS AS THINGS OF CIVILIAN MILITARY DIVIDE.

HUMANS ARE IMPERFECTIONISTS AND THEY ALLWAYS TRY TO FIND SCAPE GOAT. I AM GLAD THAT NOT MANY MILITARY PEOPLE ARE PARTICIPATING IN SILLY DEBATE THAT CAN CAUSE CIVILIAN MILITARY DIVIDE.

I GO TO PAKISTAN EVERY YEAR AND WILL BE THERE IN A WEEK'S TIME THERE. I SEE MANY SMILING MILITARY FACES AND MOST HAPPY CIVILIAN FACES. WE DO NOT HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH OTHER WITH HATE OR GRUDGE. WE BELONG TO THE SAME NATION. I MINGLE WITH VERY LOVELY PEOPLE THERE IN A VERY BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY. AS A MATER OF FACT, HUMAN PART IS MORE ENJOYABLE THERE AS PEOPLE ARE NOT YET MONEY SLAVES TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE IN US AND CANADA.

PAKISTANIS OF BOTH RICH AND NOT SO RICH DIVIDE SEEM TO BE HAPPY AND SMILING ON EACH OF MY VISIT.THIS TIME I WILL BE SPENDING GOOD TWO WEEKS IN IRAN AS WELL FOR VERY IMPORTANT GAS ENGINEERING MATTERS IN TEHRAN AND THEN RELAX FOR THREE OR FOUR DAYS IN MESHED.

PAKISTAN IS VERY ENJOYABLE COUNTRY AND LET US HOPE AND TRY THAT IT NORMALIZES SOON.PAKISTAN HAS MANY MANY LOVELY LOVELY DISPLAY OF NATURE LIKE IN SWAT, CHITRAL, GILGIT, HUNZA, MURREE, KASHMIR, KAGHAN, SKARDU AND MANY MORE PLACES AND YOU DO NOT FIND THAT GRAND NATURE EVEN IN AMERICA AND CANADA.THEN SERVICES ARE SO CHEAP AND FRIENDLY THAT YOU JUST LOVE IT.PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO HELP AND SMILING AS WELL.

THE MILITARY IS NOT THE ENEMY. THEY CAN GO ONLY TO A MAX TARGETTED THRESHOLD AND THAT THRESHOLD HAS MAXED OUT TO CONTAIN CERTAIN THINGS UNDER SOME AGENDAS.

BUT, DO NOT FORGET THAT PAK GEO STRATEGY HAS PUT THE GOVERNANCE STRESS THAT NO COUNTRY, EVEN WITH THE MIGHTIEST MILITARY OR FINANCES, HAS TO PUT UP WITH.

ONLY THOSE WHO ROB AND RUN FROM COUNTRY ARE THE NATION'S ENEMIES. THOSE, WHO LIVE OVERSEAS AND HAVE ALLWAYS BROUGHT MONEY INTO THE COUNTRY ARE THE FRIENDS OF PAKISTAN.

AND I, HONESTLY SPEAKING,HAVE LOVED EACH OF MY STAY OR VISIT AS THE COUNTRY AND PEOPLE IN CIVIL AND MILITARY ARE JUST GRAND.I SEE THE NATURAL SCENERY IN PAK BETTER THAN ROCKIES OF AMERICA. I SEE THE LOVELY SMILING FACES, WHO TALK OF BUTTRESSING RATHER THAN TALKING MONEY OBSSESSION IN NORTH AMERICA.THIGS AND TRAVEL WITHIN PAKISTAN IS EXTREMELY CHEAP IN PAKISTAN COMPARED TO NORTH AMERICA. ACTUALLY, YOU ARE ENJOYING YOUR EVERY MINUTE IN PAKISTAN WHEN YOU SPEND AMERICAN OR CANADIAN MONEY.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO THINK NATIONAL COHESION AND FORGET ABOUT ANY CIVIL-MILITARY DIVIDE AS IT IS ONLY EXAGERATED.

A PISSED OFF PERSON IS PISSED OFF IN AMERICA, IN PAKISTAN OR ANY PLACE ELSE.

I VISITED PAKISTAN LAST YEAR DURING INDEPENDENCE DAYS AND I HAD EXPERIENCE OF LIFE THAT I HAVE NEVER ENJOYED IT IN ANY COUNTRY ALL MY LIFE.I SAW VERY LOVELY GROUP OF GIRLS IN MURREE AND THEY WERE HAPPILY WHISTLING AND WAVING AT ME WITH GREEN FLAGS IN THEIR HANDS.THOSE GIRLS WERE SO GORGEOUS LOOKING AND THEY WERE DISPLAYING ALL TYPES OF LOVE FOR PAKISTAN BY WAVING GREEN FLAGS. THEIR JUBILIANT WHISTLING ACTS COULD CONQUER YOUR HEARTS.

LOVE TO PAKISTAN CIVIL AND MILITARY. SEE YOU ALL SOON.





Anwar Mahmood, Canada - 03 August, 2007

Pakistani people

Colonel, Pakistan does not belong to the Army. It belongs to the people of Pakistan. We pay the Army to do its job, not to rule over us illegally.

Instead of committing continuous treason by violating the Constitution, how about winning a war, for a change?

Nausherwan Lahori, Pakistan - 05 August, 2007

Why the nation has started hating Pakistan Army

I have read your article & it seems it’s more out of desperation to clear the Army's name then to provide any concrete reply to what people argue about our Military.

I will give my personal example. I belong to a region where ever second person wishes to join Army and so did i. Due to medical issues i couldn't go through but that did not change my love to our Army till this man Mr. Musharraf came into power. I had always believed that our politicians are corrupt and incompetent (as you also have tried to imply) just like majority believes. But after seeing his tenure and especially what he did & his ARMY did my mind has completely changed about the ARMY. I no more feel any respect for the khaki men. Why?. Because when i was a kid i used to be fascinated by the bravery stories and all the academic shit that is churned out to brainwash the students in our country to present ARMY as a holy army. I started using my own mind. I started judging other views. I started understanding politics & country more and i came to the conclusion that it’s the ARMY in Pakistan which is the biggest hurdle in our progress, followed by the Mullah’s. Interestingly it’s the ARMY which supported these mullah’s that too to make sure it keeps a hold on everything in country because people here are too emotional religiously so playing with their emotion was quite easy. First Zia made those idiotic changes in the name of Islam followed by spreading the virus of Taliban in 90’s in Afghanistan.

I know what an ARMY officers thinking revolves around. I understand the mentality of a typical khaki guy whether he is a low grade officer of a senior. They can hardly hear a NO or an argument based on equality of reasoning. They have been trained (brainwashed?) in such a way that they cannot hear anything against ARMY. And it makes sense. Discipline is one of the strongest components of any ARMY in the world. No problem with it but the problem lies when you guys poke your noses into civil affairs. That’s not your domain but not only the ARMY has taken over politics in one way or other, especially through that fir-oanic section known as ISI of yours but it actually suits the ARMY to see corrupt politicians staying on scene. This way not only it’s easy to jump into power when it pleases you but you have an argument (similar to the one we hear from people who support ARMY take over) to argue on.

Except PPP can you name any party in whose create your ISI did not put its dirty hand in?. Be it IJI, PML (N), MQM or now the all-corrupt PML-Q all of them were the puppets you created to forward your own agenda of staying at top. You are lucky to have plenty of politicians who support you for their own agenda, thus a marriage of convenience.



MB, Pakistan - 06 August, 2007

Why the nation has started hating Pakistan Army 2

I often see the Cor-Commander Karachi moving here and there & every time I see his brigade i feel my blood boiling over 100 degrees. And this is not only me, mind you. I have seen similar feelings among my young generation. Do you guys bother to consider why this young generation has lost its love for its own Army?

You have tried to bracket Ansar Abbasi & others as anti-Army. Such is the level of your impatience with those people. This is what I mean early when I said ARMY mentality which is based on the logic of dictatorship. When Ayesha Siddiqi wrote Military Inc. ISI used its notorious tactics to force her to leave country. This is why people of Pakistan have started hating its ARMY. They feel that you guys are just the left-overs of the Englishmen & the remaining residue of the colonial mindset.

Why that is all the privileges have been dedicated to this organisation in our country. If I be the PM of this country I would cut your budget to half. For 60 years the nation has been scared enough from INDIA & blackmailed enough. It’s only now that I wonder why INDIA would attack such a sick country like Pakistan.

After 60 years of its existence the nation has some bitter question to ask from its so-called PAK army. Why that is all the luxuries you guys enjoy are not delivered to the common man. Why that is the common man is paying for your luxuries but he himself, his family and children are dying for basics. It’s because of you guys. It’s because he is feeding an empire that has taken over the country. In fat it won’t be wrong if I say our arm has invaded its own country & taken over everything.

Instead of trying to be an ostrich its better to understand why people have started hating its own Army. It’s because they have realised the drama our Army has played for half century now. These politicians are just puppets in its hands to start a new drama every few years. And Musharraf is again doing the same DEAL (DRAMA) now. The nation is seriously sick of this Army and wants to send it back to where it belongs once for all.

A gatekeeper needs to be thrown out of the job if he tries to take over the house. This we accept we did not do in late 50’s but its high time we do it now.



MB, Pakistan - 06 August, 2007

Pakistan Army Saviours of the Nation

There is no doubt about the fact that, Pakistan Army has stood all the tests of the time and is capable of facing any challenge that may come up.
Its rather out of the ignorance and more extremist attitude that one may hate its own institution, that one that is required to be looked upto during crises.
Unfortunately we don't know a bit about the hardest and challenging conditions under which our brothers in unform serve for nothing but the saftey of their homeland. I bet upon the fact that if a man like writer of an anti army article(s) is sent to any of such conditions, where one's life is at risk, he will be able to serve even at the pay package much higher than the one offered to the highest ranked person in the army.
It is rather disappointing and displeasing to see the people commenting out of their share ignorance and politically tempered thoughts.
I request you all to think a hundred times, go out and inquire from the people in uniform first and write next.
To comment wrogly is an intellectual dishonesty and needs to be put write. Islam has forbidden us to speak without a proper investigation into the facts.

Ayb, Pakistan - 13 August, 2007

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